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Downloaded from
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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When I was a kid,
I wanted very badly to be

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the president's daughter,

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'cause I thought
you would get a lot
of dates that way, you know?

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(audience laughing)
Sure, sure.

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Now, every so often,
I'm just sitting
in the house

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and I think,
I really want to be
the first lady.

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I want to be sort of
a cute Eleanor Roosevelt.

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You know?
(audience laughing)

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(intro music playing)
(children chattering)

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Nora Ephron:
We all grew up
with this thing

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that my mother
said to us over and over
and over and over again,

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which was,
"Everything is copy."

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You know, you'd come home
with some thing

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that you thought
was the tragedy
of your life--

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someone hadn't asked you
to dance,

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or the hem had fallen
out of your dress

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or whatever you thought
was the worst thing

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that could ever happen
to a human being--

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and my mother would say,
"Everything is copy."

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I now believe that what
my mother meant is this:

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When you slip
on a banana peel,
people laugh at you,

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but when you tell people
you slipped on a banana peel,

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it's your laugh,
so you become the hero

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rather than the victim
of the joke.

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I think
that's what she meant.

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On the other hand,

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she may merely have meant,

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everything is copy.

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♪ ♪

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Jacob Bernstein:
My mom, Nora Ephron,
was a writer.

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I'm also a writer,
though a very different kind.

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I'm a journalist,
whose job it is

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to take myself
out of the equation.

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Agnosticism is at the heart
of what I do.

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She was an essayist
and a screenwriter

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whose own life became
her central inspiration.

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Certainty was a hallmark
of her brand.

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After she died
of leukemia in 2012,

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I began to think a lot
about what it means
to be a writer.

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Where were the limits
for her?

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What is the cost
of "everything is copy"?

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Did my mom really believe
this mantra of hers?

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Do you think
Nora would be happy
that you're doing this?

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It was her philosophy
in a certain way.

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But she said,
"What is there left to say?

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I've said everything."

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But of course,
that's never true.

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I mean,
it's actually naive.

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I mean, I never would say
Nora was naive,

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but that's actually naive,

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to think that you could
put out your version
of the story

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and that that is
the only version to tell.

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That's not true.

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David Remnick:
She was a very, very smart,

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comic, filmmaker,
writer, reporter.

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It was all of a piece,

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and the voice
is quite unified.

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Really terrific,
true comic writing

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is impossibly hard,
and she had it.

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Rob Reiner:
Men and women and how
they are with each other,

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that's what she knew best,
that's what she did best.

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"Sleepless in Seattle"?

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That's what she called
him on the show
because he can't sleep.

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Becky:
And now 2000 women
want his number.

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There are things
that you sort of know
that men think.

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Charlie Rose: Right.
Um, things like,

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"How long do I
have to lie here
and hold her

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before I can go home?
Is 30 seconds enough?"
You know?

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Mike Nichols:
A contemporary
romantic movie,

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it's one of the things
you go to the movies for.

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And she made it happen again

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when we had lost it
completely.

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Meryl Streep:
She hid all these little
human interactions

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inside witty, funny things.

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She understood love,
I think.

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(singing)
Nora:
Meryl did Karen Silkwood

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and the Polish person
and the Danish person.
Blah, blah, blah.

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But the true stretch,

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if I do say so,
was playing me...

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(audience laughing)
in  Heartburn.

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She was the best essayist
I've ever read.

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Her essays
are just riveting.

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I mean, she created
a new form.

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Richard Cohen:
But Nora was bigger

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than somebody who wrote
best-selling books.

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She was bigger than somebody
who directed movies
or wrote plays.

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She was like a combination
of all of that, plus.

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Nichols:
I think more than anybody
I've ever known,

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she knew what she wanted
and she went and got it.

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Or went and did it,
which is more to the point.

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Bryan Lourd:
She had the ability
to go back the typewriter

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and write herself
out of trouble,

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and she was very adept
and facile

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at shape-shifting.

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Amy Pascal:
She was everything
that every girl like me

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wished they could be--

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smart, insightful, witty,

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sexy without trying,
ambitious in all
the good ways,

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and she was a great girl, too.
She was a great girl.

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Bob Gottlieb:
I think for many women,
she became a feminist icon.

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She broke through
a lot of glass ceilings.

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That meant a lot
to women I know.

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So it made sense
that for many, many people,

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her death was personal,
people who didn't know her.

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Joel Schumacher:
When Nora died,
I remember one of my friends

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said, "It's like a light
went out in New York."

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Like so many friends,
I never knew
that Nora was ill.

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Jacob:
Did you have a sense
anything was wrong

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those last six years?

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You know, that's the thing
that was so, um, shocking,

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is to find out
that Nora had been sick.

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Jacob:
Did you have any sense
she was sick?

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Not at all.

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Did you have any idea?
No, no. No, no.

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You knew early on.
She hadn't told us.

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Yeah, she hadn't told you.

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And Mona said,
"You have to tell the kids

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'cause they're not kids.
They're grown-ups."

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Jacob:
For decades, my mother
put her private life

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front and center,

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writing about her feelings
of physical inadequacy,

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the indignities of aging,

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and the breakup
of her marriage to my father.

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But at the end of her life,

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she chose to stay silent
about the blood disorder
that killed her.

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Why after being so open
about everything else

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did she choose
not to address

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the most significant crisis
of her life?

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You know,
I think this was a story
that she couldn't control.

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You know, the other stuff,
she could control.

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She told it her way.

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Nora:
The Legend.

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I grew up
in Beverly Hills,

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in a Spanish house
in the flats.

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My parents
had a large group of friends,

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almost all of them
transplanted New Yorkers

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who were in the business.

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That's what it was known as,
the business.

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The men were screenwriters
or television writers.

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Their wives did nothing.

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Our mother was different.
She worked.

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This was long before
the concept of having it all,

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but my mother had it all.

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When I was a kid,
I went to the movies,

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and I not only didn't believe
there was a Hollywood,

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I can't imagine
that there could be anyone
who could grow up out there

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and then become
a reasonably normal person
besides, you know?

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And you did.
It's quite a thing.

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Well, I did not have
the kind of Hollywood
childhood

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that, you know, some--
My parents were screenwriters,

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which was already
getting sort of dignified.

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I mean, we didn't have
a projection room
in the house,

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which there were people
who had, you know?

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Nora: I was born in New York.
Rose: Right.

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And I had been
completely happy
in New York

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till I was five,
when I was ripped

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out of New York City
and plopped

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into Beverly Hills
by my parents,

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who went out there
to become screenwriters.

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Rose:
And did!

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Nora:
They got credits
on 15 or 16 movies.

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I once counted it up.
It's somewhere in
that vicinity,

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including  Daddy Long Legs

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and  Carousel
and  The Desk Set

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and a whole bunch
of movies.

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There eventually
were four daughters.

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And, you know,
my sister Delia
got her head stuck

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between the banister rails
in our house,

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and the Beverly Hills
Fire Department

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had to come and cut
the wrought iron away

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so that she could
be extricated.

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Child: Daddy?
Shh, shh, quiet.

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Daddy, I'm stuck.

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Nora:
And less than a year later,

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in a movie called
The Jackpot came out,

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with Jimmy Stewart.

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My parents just took it
and recycled it,

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just like that.

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Delia:
Their story
of falling in love

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was that my father
and mother met at a party

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and he asked her out
on a date,

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and by the end of the date,
he said, "Will you marry me?"

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And she said,
"Can I read your work?"

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And we were told that story
over and over again.

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And they just loved it,
and they thought it was like
the most romantic story.

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And it wasn't until
I got older that I thought,

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that is really weird,
you know?

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Amy Ephron:
My dad had written
a bunch of plays,

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and I think Mommy got tired
of his plays not selling.

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And she said,
"I'll write one with you."

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And it was sort of a hit,
and then they moved to LA.

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And I think Mommy thought,
and rightly so,

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that she had broken
some kind of glass ceiling.

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Was it good to have
a mother like that?

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What was she like
as a mother?

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Weird.
She wasn't...

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Warmth was not really
up her alley.

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Hallie Ephron:
I once asked her
about friends of theirs.

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00:10:47,417 --> 00:10:49,000
I had liked the wife
very much,

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00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,041
and I said to her,
"What does she do?"

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And my mother said,
"Her nails."

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00:10:53,333 --> 00:10:55,375
(ripping sound)

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Delia:
To me, everything
in our family began

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at the dining room table.

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00:11:00,542 --> 00:11:02,542
That was where
you were groomed

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00:11:02,542 --> 00:11:04,750
to be the writer
that you became.

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00:11:04,750 --> 00:11:06,917
I mean, that was
when every time I said
something funny,

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00:11:06,917 --> 00:11:09,708
my dad said,
"That's a great line.
Write it down."

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00:11:09,708 --> 00:11:13,583
Hallie:
The thing about my mother
was she loved words.

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00:11:13,583 --> 00:11:15,792
She would recite poetry
at the dinner table.

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00:11:15,792 --> 00:11:17,750
She read to us.
She certainly read to me.

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00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:20,667
Maybe less to Amy.
Probably Nora got read
the most to.

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00:11:20,667 --> 00:11:22,583
Nora got the most
of everything.

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00:11:22,583 --> 00:11:26,041
Well, tell me what
your first memory is
of my mom.

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00:11:26,041 --> 00:11:29,834
My first memory is of her
biting into a tomato

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00:11:29,834 --> 00:11:32,750
in such a perfect way
as to squirt juice
in my eye.

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00:11:32,750 --> 00:11:34,959
That's it--
that's what I remember,

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00:11:34,959 --> 00:11:36,792
perfect sibling moment.

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00:11:36,792 --> 00:11:41,708
She really took charge of me
in a very sort of bossy way.

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00:11:41,708 --> 00:11:43,375
I think I was an opportunity.

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00:11:43,375 --> 00:11:45,291
♪ ♪

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00:11:51,625 --> 00:11:53,625
Barry Diller:
We met definitely at school.

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00:11:53,625 --> 00:11:58,625
I think we met when I went
to Beverly High as a freshman,

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00:11:58,625 --> 00:12:01,458
and Nora was, I think, junior.

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00:12:01,458 --> 00:12:02,792
Jacob:
And what was she like?

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00:12:02,792 --> 00:12:05,041
Well, Nora has
always been Nora.

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00:12:05,041 --> 00:12:08,959
So I don't know that there's--
that there's much, though...

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00:12:08,959 --> 00:12:10,417
She fired me,

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00:12:10,417 --> 00:12:12,542
or she says she didn't,
but she definitely fired me

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00:12:12,542 --> 00:12:15,250
from the high school
newspaper.

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00:12:15,250 --> 00:12:18,500
I mean, four or five times,
we had this discussion.

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00:12:18,500 --> 00:12:21,041
I say, "Nora, you fired me."
"I did not fire you.

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00:12:21,041 --> 00:12:24,166
"I didn't do it because of
this, this, that and that.

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00:12:24,166 --> 00:12:26,625
And I was not there
when you were there
at this exact time."

237
00:12:26,625 --> 00:12:30,792
I said, "Nora, I promise you,
I was 14 years old.

238
00:12:30,792 --> 00:12:33,792
I hadn't been fired before.
I remember."

239
00:12:36,125 --> 00:12:38,542
Wendy Goldberg:
She always,
even at that young age,

240
00:12:38,542 --> 00:12:40,333
had an attitude.

241
00:12:40,333 --> 00:12:43,417
It wasn't always, like,
the friendliest attitude.

242
00:12:43,417 --> 00:12:45,917
She was more
of a brainy girl.

243
00:12:45,917 --> 00:12:48,583
And I was more of, like,
the cheerleader girl.

244
00:12:48,583 --> 00:12:51,291
And I think she had
a little disdain for that.

245
00:12:51,291 --> 00:12:53,834
We were 309 people

246
00:12:53,834 --> 00:12:57,000
when we graduated
high school,

247
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,417
and Nora was number one.

248
00:12:59,417 --> 00:13:02,750
Gave the valedictorian
speech.

249
00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:05,458
Diller:
But there was not
a lot of feminine

250
00:13:05,458 --> 00:13:07,959
about Nora during that period.

251
00:13:07,959 --> 00:13:11,125
And at the time,
she had one eye

252
00:13:11,125 --> 00:13:16,667
that was kind of
unevenly closed, or open.

253
00:13:16,667 --> 00:13:20,542
I don't think Nora
was that well-endowed.

254
00:13:20,542 --> 00:13:25,000
I think that was
a little something that
she wasn't thrilled about.

255
00:13:26,959 --> 00:13:31,125
Lena Dunham:
A Few Words About Breasts.
Esquire, 1972.

256
00:13:31,125 --> 00:13:33,708
"Here's some things
I did to help:

257
00:13:33,708 --> 00:13:36,417
"Bought a Mark Eden
Bust Developer.

258
00:13:36,417 --> 00:13:38,708
"Slept on my back
for four years.

259
00:13:38,708 --> 00:13:40,708
"Splashed cold water
on them every night

260
00:13:40,708 --> 00:13:42,792
"because some French actress
said in Life  magazine

261
00:13:42,792 --> 00:13:45,750
"that that was what she did
for her perfect bustline.

262
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:48,583
"Ultimately, I resigned
myself to a bad toss

263
00:13:48,583 --> 00:13:50,667
"and I began
to wear padded bras.

264
00:13:50,667 --> 00:13:53,875
"And my girlfriends, the ones
with nice, big breasts

265
00:13:53,875 --> 00:13:55,750
"would go on endlessly
about how their lives

266
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:58,083
"had been far more miserable
than mine.

267
00:13:58,083 --> 00:14:00,625
"Their bra straps
were snapped in class.

268
00:14:00,625 --> 00:14:02,417
"They couldn't sleep
on their stomachs.

269
00:14:02,417 --> 00:14:04,417
"They were stared at
whenever the word 'mountain'

270
00:14:04,417 --> 00:14:05,750
"cropped up in geography.

271
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:07,750
"I have thought about
their remarks,

272
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:09,750
"tried to put myself
in their place,

273
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:11,750
"considered
their point of view,

274
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:15,166
and I think
they are full of shit."

275
00:14:15,166 --> 00:14:18,208
I don't think Mom
ever said to any of us,

276
00:14:18,208 --> 00:14:21,750
you know,
"You're so beautiful.
You're adorable."

277
00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:24,291
Any of that stuff.
And we were all
pretty cute kids.

278
00:14:24,291 --> 00:14:26,708
And we were all--
but even if we weren't,

279
00:14:26,708 --> 00:14:28,250
we were her daughters,
you know?

280
00:14:28,250 --> 00:14:31,834
So I think if your mom
never tells you that,

281
00:14:31,834 --> 00:14:34,250
how would you ever know it?

282
00:14:35,708 --> 00:14:38,125
Rose:
You graduate
from Wellesley College

283
00:14:38,125 --> 00:14:40,625
and you want
to live in New York.
You come to Manhattan.

284
00:14:40,625 --> 00:14:43,750
You get a job
as a researcher for
Newsweek magazine?

285
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:45,417
Nora:
Mail girl.
Mail girl.

286
00:14:45,417 --> 00:14:47,166
Mail girl.
There were no mail boys,
actually.

287
00:14:47,166 --> 00:14:49,375
Yeah, 'cause mail room
is where a lot of people

288
00:14:49,375 --> 00:14:51,458
like Barry Diller and others
started at the agencies.

289
00:14:51,458 --> 00:14:54,166
At the agencies,
yes, where there were
no mail girls, by the way.

290
00:14:54,166 --> 00:14:56,208
If you were a mail boy
at an agency,

291
00:14:56,208 --> 00:14:58,250
you would eventually
become an agent.

292
00:14:58,250 --> 00:14:59,875
If you were a mail girl
at Newsweek,

293
00:14:59,875 --> 00:15:01,667
nothing ever really
happened to you

294
00:15:01,667 --> 00:15:05,625
except that you kind of
continued to serve
men forever.

295
00:15:05,625 --> 00:15:08,000
And at some point
along this road,

296
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,458
there was a strike,
a New York newspaper strike.

297
00:15:10,458 --> 00:15:11,750
Right.

298
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:13,542
This is a copy
of the New York Post,

299
00:15:13,542 --> 00:15:15,750
an 84-day-old copy
of the last edition

300
00:15:15,750 --> 00:15:17,542
to be printed
before the strike began.

301
00:15:17,542 --> 00:15:20,041
Buried inside was the story
of a federal...

302
00:15:20,041 --> 00:15:23,166
Victor Navasky:
During the strike,
we got the idea

303
00:15:23,166 --> 00:15:27,500
of publishing parodies
of the four main newspapers.

304
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:30,333
And Nora thought
of doing a parody

305
00:15:30,333 --> 00:15:33,625
of Leonard Lyons,
who was the leading columnist

306
00:15:33,625 --> 00:15:37,041
of the  New York Post,
which we called the  "Pest."

307
00:15:37,041 --> 00:15:39,708
Nora:
The editors of the  Post
wanted to sue.

308
00:15:39,708 --> 00:15:43,000
But the publisher,
Dorothy Schiff, said,
"Don't be ridiculous.

309
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,667
"If they can parody the  Post,
they can write for it.

310
00:15:45,667 --> 00:15:47,792
Hire them."

311
00:15:47,792 --> 00:15:51,417
And that's how
I got a try-out
at the  New York Post.

312
00:15:51,417 --> 00:15:54,166
Rose:
And so you're now writing
and you're now a reporter.

313
00:15:54,166 --> 00:15:55,959
Yes.

314
00:15:58,667 --> 00:16:00,542
I loved the  Post.

315
00:16:00,542 --> 00:16:04,208
Of course, it was a zoo.

316
00:16:04,208 --> 00:16:07,041
The editor
was a sexual predator.

317
00:16:07,041 --> 00:16:09,708
The managing editor
was a lunatic.

318
00:16:09,708 --> 00:16:13,375
Sometimes it seemed
that half the staff
was drunk.

319
00:16:13,375 --> 00:16:16,125
I can't tell you,
it was the most
wonderful job.

320
00:16:16,125 --> 00:16:19,208
I thought I was
Brenda Starr or Lois Lane

321
00:16:19,208 --> 00:16:21,000
or any one of those,
and I was.

322
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,375
I adored it.
I covered murders.

323
00:16:23,375 --> 00:16:27,375
I always felt that I was going
to be arrested for the murder

324
00:16:27,375 --> 00:16:29,417
because I felt so guilty

325
00:16:29,417 --> 00:16:32,041
about having so much fun
on the story.

326
00:16:32,041 --> 00:16:33,875
You know?
I mean, someone was dead

327
00:16:33,875 --> 00:16:37,208
and I was getting
front-page stories from it.

328
00:16:37,208 --> 00:16:39,458
Gay Talese:
I didn't know
how good she was, though.

329
00:16:39,458 --> 00:16:42,959
You can't tell
on a daily newspaper often

330
00:16:42,959 --> 00:16:45,208
how good a writer can be.

331
00:16:45,208 --> 00:16:47,542
I mean, when she started
writing those pieces
for Esquire,

332
00:16:47,542 --> 00:16:49,583
those essays, as a columnist,

333
00:16:49,583 --> 00:16:52,542
or sometimes just an essayist,
she had that voice.

334
00:16:52,542 --> 00:16:56,834
She had such a deftness,
that she could use
the first person.

335
00:16:56,834 --> 00:16:59,959
"I feel sorry for what
I'm about to do."

336
00:16:59,959 --> 00:17:03,458
She somehow heard a voice
that worked

337
00:17:03,458 --> 00:17:06,583
and she was able
to do something completely,

338
00:17:06,583 --> 00:17:08,333
really revolutionary.

339
00:17:08,333 --> 00:17:10,959
Jacob:
My mom was dangerous too.

340
00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:13,834
She didn't have any trouble
going after people--

341
00:17:13,834 --> 00:17:16,750
people who had helped her,
people she'd dated,

342
00:17:16,750 --> 00:17:18,542
people she'd worked for.

343
00:17:18,542 --> 00:17:20,583
It was part of the fun
of reading her.

344
00:17:22,708 --> 00:17:26,792
Meg Ryan: Dorothy Schiff
and the New York Post.
Esquire, 1975.

345
00:17:28,125 --> 00:17:31,208
"I feel bad about
what I'm going to do here.

346
00:17:31,208 --> 00:17:34,625
"What I'm going to do here
is write something about
Dorothy Schiff,

347
00:17:34,625 --> 00:17:36,583
"and the reason
I feel bad about it

348
00:17:36,583 --> 00:17:39,291
"is that a few months ago,
I managed to patch things up
with her,

349
00:17:39,291 --> 00:17:41,291
"and now
I'm going to blow it.

350
00:17:41,291 --> 00:17:44,333
"Dorothy Schiff has a right
to run her paper

351
00:17:44,333 --> 00:17:46,500
"any way she likes.
She owns it.

352
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:49,125
"But it seems never
to have crossed her mind

353
00:17:49,125 --> 00:17:51,792
"that she might
have a public obligation

354
00:17:51,792 --> 00:17:53,875
"to produce
a good newspaper.

355
00:17:53,875 --> 00:17:58,125
"Gail Sheehy
quite cleverly compared her
with Scheherazade,

356
00:17:58,125 --> 00:18:00,250
"but it would be more apt,
I think,

357
00:18:00,250 --> 00:18:02,417
"to compare her
with Marie Antoinette...

358
00:18:02,417 --> 00:18:06,542
as in,
let them read schlock."

359
00:18:06,542 --> 00:18:09,959
I mean, she had a--
you know, a luminous smile,

360
00:18:09,959 --> 00:18:14,333
and she had a very easy way
of introducing herself,

361
00:18:14,333 --> 00:18:17,166
but she had a razor
in her back pocket.

362
00:18:17,166 --> 00:18:19,000
She might have been cruel
and wicked,

363
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,750
and she always was
pretty cruel and pretty
wicked on one level.

364
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:24,166
As long as you weren't
the recipient of her wrath,

365
00:18:24,166 --> 00:18:26,166
you were pretty happy
about it.

366
00:18:26,166 --> 00:18:27,667
And she was funny about it.

367
00:18:27,667 --> 00:18:31,166
I thought
she was very funny
and very mean.

368
00:18:31,166 --> 00:18:33,667
And at one point,
she was mean about me.

369
00:18:33,667 --> 00:18:35,458
And then
I just had to remember

370
00:18:35,458 --> 00:18:37,625
that she was funny.

371
00:18:37,625 --> 00:18:42,917
It was part of her whole
Dorothy Parker thing

372
00:18:42,917 --> 00:18:45,458
to cut people to the quick.

373
00:18:45,458 --> 00:18:46,750
(laughing)

374
00:18:46,750 --> 00:18:48,708
You can be malevolent,
can't you?

375
00:18:48,708 --> 00:18:50,834
Oh, sure.
It's kind of fun
to be malevolent.

376
00:18:50,834 --> 00:18:53,041
No, I mean--
I tell you something
you were malevolent in.

377
00:18:53,041 --> 00:18:55,375
In your piece
on Julie Nixon.

378
00:18:55,375 --> 00:18:57,917
You have a soft spot
for Julie Nixon.
I like Julie, yes.

379
00:18:57,917 --> 00:18:59,375
Well, I don't.

380
00:18:59,375 --> 00:19:02,083
I think she's
a chocolate-covered spider.

381
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,750
Remnick:
Look, her voice in print
really replicated her voice,

382
00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:12,750
almost, in life,

383
00:19:12,750 --> 00:19:15,041
and in life,
she could be a little mean

384
00:19:15,041 --> 00:19:16,792
and a little wicked,

385
00:19:16,792 --> 00:19:20,375
and-- what's the word
we're never allowed to say--
judgmental.

386
00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:25,708
Nora was tough. Nora was
very, very, very tough.

387
00:19:25,708 --> 00:19:28,500
But, you know,
tough is good.

388
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:30,417
There's nothing wrong
with tough

389
00:19:30,417 --> 00:19:33,041
any more than there's
anything wrong with ambition.

390
00:19:33,041 --> 00:19:35,625
Nora would have done nothing
had she not been ambitious,

391
00:19:35,625 --> 00:19:38,500
and she would not
have succeeded at everything
had she not been tough.

392
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:41,792
Delia:
She came of age
in journalism

393
00:19:41,792 --> 00:19:44,083
at that moment when
magazine journalism

394
00:19:44,083 --> 00:19:47,917
was really coming alive,
and so you had Tom Wolfe

395
00:19:47,917 --> 00:19:50,333
and  The Electric
Kool-Aid Acid Test,

396
00:19:50,333 --> 00:19:52,667
and you had Gay Talese,

397
00:19:52,667 --> 00:19:55,834
and they're writing
amazing journalism.

398
00:19:55,834 --> 00:19:58,083
Talese:
Esquire at that time
was doing

399
00:19:58,083 --> 00:20:01,417
that kind of
literary journalism
or new journalism.

400
00:20:01,417 --> 00:20:05,542
But it had
an extraordinary editor--
Harold Hayes.

401
00:20:05,542 --> 00:20:08,000
When you worked for him,
if he liked you or liked
your work,

402
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,792
you could do
almost anything you wanted.

403
00:20:09,792 --> 00:20:12,333
Nora:
They offered me a column.

404
00:20:12,333 --> 00:20:16,458
Harold called up and said,
"Well, what is it you want
to write about?"

405
00:20:16,458 --> 00:20:18,708
It was one of those
sort of Harold moments

406
00:20:18,708 --> 00:20:21,291
of, "I've offered you
the moon."

407
00:20:21,291 --> 00:20:23,250
And I said, "Women."

408
00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:27,125
And I don't think
I knew it until that moment.

409
00:20:34,625 --> 00:20:37,333
Delia:
She writes these columns
for  Esquire

410
00:20:37,333 --> 00:20:39,291
and she becomes a star.

411
00:20:39,291 --> 00:20:42,291
I mean, a real star.
She breaks out from the pack,

412
00:20:42,291 --> 00:20:45,250
and from the pack of women
as well as men.

413
00:20:46,375 --> 00:20:49,291
Nora:
I said, "There's
this thing happening,

414
00:20:49,291 --> 00:20:51,041
"the women's movement,

415
00:20:51,041 --> 00:20:53,291
"and nobody's really
writing about it

416
00:20:53,291 --> 00:20:56,166
with any edge
or humor or anything."

417
00:20:56,166 --> 00:20:59,041
Remnick:
I didn't know anything
about feminism

418
00:20:59,041 --> 00:21:00,875
when I was 13 years old,

419
00:21:00,875 --> 00:21:04,333
and I read her columns,
and they were telling me

420
00:21:04,333 --> 00:21:07,125
about Gloria Steinem
and Betty Friedan

421
00:21:07,125 --> 00:21:09,333
and breast size
and all the rest,

422
00:21:09,333 --> 00:21:12,500
and it was all expressed
in a kind of wised-up

423
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:14,542
New York...

424
00:21:14,542 --> 00:21:17,792
comic... seriousness.

425
00:21:17,792 --> 00:21:20,333
Nora was able to sort of
publicly discuss,

426
00:21:20,333 --> 00:21:22,875
like, her imperfections,
her anxieties,

427
00:21:22,875 --> 00:21:25,792
the complexity
of being female,
the way she both--

428
00:21:25,792 --> 00:21:28,500
She wasn't coming down
on the side of pure feminism--

429
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:31,458
burn your bra,
don't run a comb
through your hair--

430
00:21:31,458 --> 00:21:33,542
and she also wasn't
Helen Gurley Brown

431
00:21:33,542 --> 00:21:37,291
telling you to, like,
you know, hide the fact
that you had anxiety.

432
00:21:37,291 --> 00:21:39,625
She was able to say,
"I want all the things

433
00:21:39,625 --> 00:21:41,583
"that women are supposed
to want,

434
00:21:41,583 --> 00:21:44,083
and I also hate
all the things that women
are supposed to want."

435
00:21:46,166 --> 00:21:50,208
Gaby Hoffman:
Fantasies. Esquire, 1972.

436
00:21:50,208 --> 00:21:53,000
"I am somewhat liberated
by current standards,

437
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,417
"but I have in my head
this dreadful, unliberated
sexual fantasy.

438
00:21:57,417 --> 00:21:59,375
"I have never told anyone

439
00:21:59,375 --> 00:22:02,583
"the exact details
of my particular sex fantasy.

440
00:22:02,583 --> 00:22:06,041
"It is my secret
and I am not going
to divulge it here.

441
00:22:06,041 --> 00:22:08,750
"Anyway, without giving away
any of the juicy parts,

442
00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:11,500
"I can tell you
that in its broad outlines,

443
00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:13,875
"it has largely to do
with being dominated

444
00:22:13,875 --> 00:22:16,792
"by faceless males
who rip my clothes off.

445
00:22:16,792 --> 00:22:19,250
"That's just about all
they have to do.

446
00:22:19,250 --> 00:22:21,583
"Stare at me
in this faceless way,

447
00:22:21,583 --> 00:22:25,083
"go mad with desire,
and rip my clothes off.

448
00:22:25,083 --> 00:22:26,959
"It's terrific.

449
00:22:26,959 --> 00:22:28,542
"In my sex fantasy,

450
00:22:28,542 --> 00:22:31,291
nobody ever loves me
for my mind."

451
00:22:31,291 --> 00:22:33,417
For better or worse--

452
00:22:33,417 --> 00:22:35,250
she might say for worse,

453
00:22:35,250 --> 00:22:37,625
but at the time,
it seemed for better--

454
00:22:37,625 --> 00:22:40,417
I introduced her
to her first husband,

455
00:22:40,417 --> 00:22:42,333
to Dan Greenburg.

456
00:22:42,333 --> 00:22:44,917
He was a very funny writer.

457
00:22:44,917 --> 00:22:46,542
Dan Greenburg:
She and I hit it off.

458
00:22:46,542 --> 00:22:48,750
I mean,
she's a very witty person,

459
00:22:48,750 --> 00:22:52,125
and I love a witty person.

460
00:22:52,125 --> 00:22:55,208
We were both very ambitious,

461
00:22:55,208 --> 00:22:59,458
and we were both
doing very well.

462
00:22:59,458 --> 00:23:03,291
At that point, my book,
How to Be a Jewish Mother,

463
00:23:03,291 --> 00:23:05,583
was number one
on the bestseller list.

464
00:23:05,583 --> 00:23:07,500
We would have dinner parties,

465
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,917
and Nora would go up
to a celebrity she had
never met

466
00:23:10,917 --> 00:23:13,667
and say,
"Hi, my name is Nora Ephron.

467
00:23:13,667 --> 00:23:16,250
If I invited you to dinner
at my house, would you come?"

468
00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:20,125
And she was so adorable
and so appealing,

469
00:23:20,125 --> 00:23:22,417
I don't think anybody
ever said no.

470
00:23:22,417 --> 00:23:25,291
So we got to run
with a very vast crowd.

471
00:23:25,291 --> 00:23:27,792
We had Mike Nichols
over to dinner,

472
00:23:27,792 --> 00:23:32,125
we had Buck Henry,
Joan Didion.

473
00:23:32,125 --> 00:23:34,708
Barbara Walters:
Nobody entertained better.

474
00:23:34,708 --> 00:23:37,041
Not just the food,
which was so wonderful,

475
00:23:37,041 --> 00:23:39,333
which Nora somehow did
with her left hand,

476
00:23:39,333 --> 00:23:43,125
but she also had
the most interesting
collection of people.

477
00:23:43,125 --> 00:23:46,375
There would be opinions,
and there would be
conversation,

478
00:23:46,375 --> 00:23:48,417
and there would be laughter.

479
00:23:48,417 --> 00:23:51,208
Ken Auletta:
I always felt that Nora
was kind of like a magnet

480
00:23:51,208 --> 00:23:54,542
and that people
were just drawn to her.

481
00:23:54,542 --> 00:23:58,333
I know some
of the ingredients
that magnetized her.

482
00:23:58,333 --> 00:24:01,125
I mean,
she was really interesting,
she was really smart,

483
00:24:01,125 --> 00:24:05,708
she was really funny,
she was really engaged
in other people's lives.

484
00:24:05,708 --> 00:24:11,000
But I had
this terrible secret thing.

485
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,041
Sometimes I wish

486
00:24:14,041 --> 00:24:17,333
my husband were dead.

487
00:24:17,333 --> 00:24:18,834
I think it's--
Life would be more--

488
00:24:18,834 --> 00:24:20,625
--a universal thing.
No, it's not a serious thing.

489
00:24:20,625 --> 00:24:23,041
You don't really wish
he were dead.

490
00:24:23,041 --> 00:24:24,792
I mean, I'm--
Mm-hmm.

491
00:24:24,792 --> 00:24:27,208
The thing is that

492
00:24:27,208 --> 00:24:30,083
everyone sort of wonders,
if I hadn't married

493
00:24:30,083 --> 00:24:33,208
the person I married,
who could I marry?

494
00:24:33,208 --> 00:24:37,708
Yeah?
And it's sort of
a vague infidelity fantasy.

495
00:24:37,708 --> 00:24:40,250
You know?
Who would I like
to have an affair with?

496
00:24:40,250 --> 00:24:43,041
But I am so guilty
about infidelity

497
00:24:43,041 --> 00:24:45,500
that the only way
I can get into the fantasy

498
00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:48,917
is to kill my husband
for a couple of minutes,
you see?

499
00:24:48,917 --> 00:24:52,291
I see.
And so, he's, like,
on this plane--

500
00:24:52,291 --> 00:24:55,583
it's terrible--
and then I get to marry
Mike Nichols.

501
00:24:55,583 --> 00:24:57,917
In your fantasy?
Yeah.

502
00:24:57,917 --> 00:25:02,291
Dan was a nice guy,
but I think we were all glad

503
00:25:02,291 --> 00:25:03,917
when Nora moved on.

504
00:25:09,708 --> 00:25:13,834
"My first husband
was so neurotic,
he kept hamsters.

505
00:25:13,834 --> 00:25:17,875
"They all had cute names,
like Arnold and Shirley.

506
00:25:17,875 --> 00:25:20,083
"I felt really sad
when Arnold died

507
00:25:20,083 --> 00:25:22,166
"because Charlie
was devoted to Arnold

508
00:25:22,166 --> 00:25:24,250
"and made up
a lot of hamster jokes

509
00:25:24,250 --> 00:25:26,208
"he claimed Arnold
had come up with.

510
00:25:26,208 --> 00:25:28,917
"mostly having to do
with chopped lettuce.

511
00:25:28,917 --> 00:25:32,250
"Also, and I'm sorry
to tell you this,

512
00:25:32,250 --> 00:25:35,458
"Charlie often talked
in a high squeaky voice

513
00:25:35,458 --> 00:25:37,417
"that was meant
to be Arnold's.

514
00:25:37,417 --> 00:25:39,708
"And I'm even sorrier
to tell you..."

515
00:25:39,708 --> 00:25:43,417
(laughs)
"...that I often replied
in a high squeaky voice

516
00:25:43,417 --> 00:25:45,500
"that was meant
to be Shirley's.

517
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:47,333
"I mean, what are you
supposed to do

518
00:25:47,333 --> 00:25:49,208
"with a first husband
like that?

519
00:25:49,208 --> 00:25:51,166
I'll tell you what.
Divorce him."

520
00:25:51,166 --> 00:25:55,458
Greenburg:
I want to make this
very clear.

521
00:25:55,458 --> 00:25:57,667
There has never been
a hamster.

522
00:25:57,667 --> 00:26:00,917
I have never dressed up
anybody in adorable outfits.

523
00:26:00,917 --> 00:26:03,125
If I had a hamster,
I wouldn't dress--

524
00:26:03,125 --> 00:26:04,959
it wouldn't occur to me
to dress it up

525
00:26:04,959 --> 00:26:06,625
in adorable little outfits,
okay?

526
00:26:06,625 --> 00:26:09,542
Cats?
That might be different.

527
00:26:09,542 --> 00:26:11,792
Writers are cannibals.
Yes.

528
00:26:11,792 --> 00:26:13,166
They really are.

529
00:26:13,166 --> 00:26:14,708
They'll eat their own
and whatever.

530
00:26:14,708 --> 00:26:17,375
They are predators,
and if you are friends
with them

531
00:26:17,375 --> 00:26:19,375
and you say anything funny
at dinner,

532
00:26:19,375 --> 00:26:21,250
or if anything good
happens to you,

533
00:26:21,250 --> 00:26:23,500
you are in big trouble.
And you know
from where you speak.

534
00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:25,500
Well, I do.

535
00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:28,000
Marie Brenner:
When I would see your mother
from time to time,

536
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,041
she was usually
either talking about
Mildred and Bernie,

537
00:26:32,041 --> 00:26:34,333
as she called them,
or she was with Mildred.

538
00:26:34,333 --> 00:26:39,542
Mildred Newman
was a hugely popular
psychoanalyst in New York

539
00:26:39,542 --> 00:26:42,166
at that time,
and she practiced
with her husband.

540
00:26:42,166 --> 00:26:45,959
Amy: There was
this whole thing that
went on in New York then,

541
00:26:45,959 --> 00:26:48,667
which is a kind of
first-person journalism.

542
00:26:48,667 --> 00:26:52,083
And Mildred and Bernie
were all about "me."

543
00:26:52,083 --> 00:26:54,375
"How to Be
Your Own Best Friend."

544
00:26:54,375 --> 00:26:57,667
Their whole philosophy
I think did more

545
00:26:57,667 --> 00:27:00,458
for our generation
than any kind of

546
00:27:00,458 --> 00:27:02,458
burning of bras
on Fifth Avenue.

547
00:27:02,458 --> 00:27:06,375
And it was basically,
"You don't have to be
responsible

548
00:27:06,375 --> 00:27:09,375
for anyone else
but yourself."

549
00:27:09,375 --> 00:27:12,041
Mildred and Bernie
specialized in
creative people.

550
00:27:12,041 --> 00:27:15,166
Tony Perkins, Neil Simon,
Mike Nichols.

551
00:27:15,166 --> 00:27:18,250
And Nora and Rex Reed

552
00:27:18,250 --> 00:27:20,125
and all of the rest of them.

553
00:27:20,125 --> 00:27:22,208
Some people thought
it was kind of comical.

554
00:27:22,208 --> 00:27:24,583
You know, all these people
getting together with
Mildred and Bernie,

555
00:27:24,583 --> 00:27:25,959
who got involved
in their lives in ways

556
00:27:25,959 --> 00:27:27,834
that people thought
was maybe inappropriate

557
00:27:27,834 --> 00:27:29,708
for therapists
or psychiatrists.

558
00:27:29,708 --> 00:27:33,166
Amy:
But I think that Mildred
and Bernie were very good

559
00:27:33,166 --> 00:27:36,333
at instilling
a kind of confidence
in people.

560
00:27:36,333 --> 00:27:38,917
I mean, your mom had a way
of finding, ultimately,

561
00:27:38,917 --> 00:27:40,542
the things that she needed.

562
00:27:40,542 --> 00:27:43,250
Jacob:
My mom learned as much
from self-help

563
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:45,291
as she did
from Dorothy Parker.

564
00:27:45,291 --> 00:27:47,250
And I think Mildred got her
to understand

565
00:27:47,250 --> 00:27:49,875
that you are not your parents
and you don't have to be.

566
00:27:49,875 --> 00:27:51,708
And just because
they screwed it up

567
00:27:51,708 --> 00:27:54,000
doesn't mean
you're going to.

568
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,917
Delia:
There was a tipping point
when I was 11

569
00:27:56,917 --> 00:27:58,750
when the house went
from being

570
00:27:58,750 --> 00:28:00,625
sort of a very joyful place

571
00:28:00,625 --> 00:28:03,583
and everyone--
all our friends loved
to be there too

572
00:28:03,583 --> 00:28:05,458
and the dinners were great,

573
00:28:05,458 --> 00:28:08,708
to suddenly a place
where both my parents
became alcoholics.

574
00:28:10,375 --> 00:28:13,000
Jacob:
Do you think that
the drinking was part

575
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,750
of why they lost the work,
or do you think

576
00:28:14,750 --> 00:28:17,333
they lost the work
and it somehow fueled
the drinking?

577
00:28:17,333 --> 00:28:20,500
Hallie:
I think it was a lot
of things that contributed

578
00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:22,750
to a vicious circle.

579
00:28:22,750 --> 00:28:24,375
Jacob:
Also he was having--

580
00:28:24,375 --> 00:28:26,250
There were affairs,
weren't there?

581
00:28:26,250 --> 00:28:28,750
I didn't believe it
when-- at the time,

582
00:28:28,750 --> 00:28:30,291
but I think so now.

583
00:28:30,291 --> 00:28:34,125
And it was so cruel of him
not to admit it, I think.

584
00:28:34,125 --> 00:28:37,625
Because as kids,
we thought she was crazy.

585
00:28:37,625 --> 00:28:42,041
Delia:
I feel Nora sort of had
the golden age of childhood

586
00:28:42,041 --> 00:28:43,834
in this family.

587
00:28:43,834 --> 00:28:47,750
She was 14 when things
got really difficult
at home.

588
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:51,041
So it became for me--
and I was 11--

589
00:28:51,041 --> 00:28:54,667
it became a very,
very-- oh, terrible--

590
00:28:54,667 --> 00:28:57,000
I mean, I was just scared
all the time.

591
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,667
But it is very powerful

592
00:29:00,667 --> 00:29:04,875
to have a mother
who goes to pieces
to that extent.

593
00:29:04,875 --> 00:29:07,000
And my mother did die
of cirrhosis.

594
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,792
I mean,
she did die of drink.

595
00:29:11,667 --> 00:29:15,667
Reese Witherspoon:
The Mink Coat.
Esquire, 1975.

596
00:29:17,458 --> 00:29:19,667
"My mother would moan
with pain,

597
00:29:19,667 --> 00:29:21,750
"and the nurse
would reach under her,

598
00:29:21,750 --> 00:29:25,041
"move her slightly,
and the sheets
would fall away,

599
00:29:25,041 --> 00:29:27,792
"and I would catch
a glimpse of her legs,

600
00:29:27,792 --> 00:29:29,667
"her beautiful legs,

601
00:29:29,667 --> 00:29:32,417
"now drained of muscle tone,
gone to bones.

602
00:29:32,417 --> 00:29:34,583
"The hallucinations went on.

603
00:29:34,583 --> 00:29:36,708
"Then one day suddenly,
she came into focus,

604
00:29:36,708 --> 00:29:38,583
"knew exactly who I was

605
00:29:38,583 --> 00:29:41,333
"and, like a witch,
what I was thinking.

606
00:29:41,333 --> 00:29:43,708
"'You're a reporter,'
she said to me.

607
00:29:43,708 --> 00:29:46,166
'Take notes.'"

608
00:29:47,834 --> 00:29:50,458
Jacob:
My grandmother said
everything was copy,

609
00:29:50,458 --> 00:29:52,792
but in the end,
she only wrote superficially

610
00:29:52,792 --> 00:29:55,166
about the things
that happened to her.

611
00:29:55,166 --> 00:29:57,375
Is that part of why
she wound up being

612
00:29:57,375 --> 00:30:00,041
less successful
than my mom?

613
00:30:00,041 --> 00:30:03,917
In AA, they say you are
as sick as your secrets.

614
00:30:03,917 --> 00:30:06,708
Did my grandmother's
failure to acknowledge

615
00:30:06,708 --> 00:30:10,041
slipping on the banana peel
hasten her demise?

616
00:30:10,041 --> 00:30:12,125
Did my mom's need
for control

617
00:30:12,125 --> 00:30:15,375
stem from her mom's
loss of it?

618
00:30:16,750 --> 00:30:21,208
Nora:
The Story of My Life
in 3,500 Words or Less.

619
00:30:22,542 --> 00:30:24,875
My mother died of cirrhosis,

620
00:30:24,875 --> 00:30:27,208
but the immediate cause
of her death

621
00:30:27,208 --> 00:30:29,208
was an overdose
of sleeping pills

622
00:30:29,208 --> 00:30:31,208
administered by my father.

623
00:30:31,208 --> 00:30:34,291
At the time,
this didn't seem to me

624
00:30:34,291 --> 00:30:36,542
to fall under the rubric

625
00:30:36,542 --> 00:30:38,500
of "everything is copy."

626
00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:41,750
Although it did
to my sister Amy

627
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:43,875
and she put it into a novel.

628
00:30:43,875 --> 00:30:45,917
Who can blame her?

629
00:30:45,917 --> 00:30:49,667
I think that, you know,
Mommy was in some kind
of state

630
00:30:49,667 --> 00:30:51,834
where there really wasn't
any there there.

631
00:30:51,834 --> 00:30:54,917
I think that it was some act
of not being able

632
00:30:54,917 --> 00:30:56,667
to see her like that
anymore.

633
00:30:56,667 --> 00:30:59,333
I think that contributed
to his craziness.

634
00:30:59,333 --> 00:31:01,542
I think one of the things
we got from them

635
00:31:01,542 --> 00:31:04,250
in a sort of backhanded way

636
00:31:04,250 --> 00:31:07,750
is that we got
kind of survivor tools.

637
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:10,750
Watching them
not have the equipment

638
00:31:10,750 --> 00:31:12,500
to reinvent themselves

639
00:31:12,500 --> 00:31:15,500
fueled the kind
of reinvention

640
00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:17,792
that certainly Nora had.

641
00:31:17,792 --> 00:31:20,458
A kind of--
not even a coping mechanism.

642
00:31:20,458 --> 00:31:22,166
It's something
way beyond that.

643
00:31:22,166 --> 00:31:25,125
It was like,
"You're not going
to knock me down."

644
00:31:39,208 --> 00:31:44,542
Lynda Obst:
Marie Brenner was giving
a series of parties

645
00:31:44,542 --> 00:31:45,917
in New York.

646
00:31:45,917 --> 00:31:49,125
And she had given a party
at which I met

647
00:31:49,125 --> 00:31:51,792
my then-husband, David Obst,

648
00:31:51,792 --> 00:31:56,125
who was the agent
for Woodward and Bernstein,

649
00:31:56,125 --> 00:32:00,583
and at which Nora met Carl,
your dad.

650
00:32:00,583 --> 00:32:04,458
I see your dad
leaning intently

651
00:32:04,458 --> 00:32:05,875
in on your mother,

652
00:32:05,875 --> 00:32:08,583
and I watched him
take down her phone number.

653
00:32:08,583 --> 00:32:11,417
And I thought, hmm,
that's interesting.

654
00:32:11,417 --> 00:32:13,166
I was dazzled.

655
00:32:13,166 --> 00:32:16,959
Um, and I did not really know
who your mother was

656
00:32:16,959 --> 00:32:19,083
in terms of her work.

657
00:32:19,083 --> 00:32:23,000
We had this amazing
conversation.

658
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,000
I said I would call her
in a few days,

659
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,000
and I didn't wait a few days,
and I called her the next day.

660
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,708
The next day,
your mother called me

661
00:32:31,708 --> 00:32:34,917
and said, "Are you really,
really finished?"

662
00:32:34,917 --> 00:32:36,959
She said, "Have you really--
that's it?"

663
00:32:36,959 --> 00:32:39,166
I said, "Oh, yeah.
Long ago."

664
00:32:39,166 --> 00:32:41,667
So that was how they met.

665
00:32:41,667 --> 00:32:45,708
Jacob:
And when had you dated
my father?

666
00:32:45,708 --> 00:32:48,917
Well, I began dating
your father

667
00:32:48,917 --> 00:32:51,291
before Watergate,
a month before.

668
00:32:51,291 --> 00:32:52,708
May of '72.

669
00:32:52,708 --> 00:32:56,333
And I remember a phone call
from Carl saying,

670
00:32:56,333 --> 00:32:58,542
"I can't come up
to New York this weekend."

671
00:32:58,542 --> 00:33:00,041
"Oh, why is that, Carl?"

672
00:33:00,041 --> 00:33:02,708
"Oh, because I'm working
on a story.

673
00:33:02,708 --> 00:33:05,875
And I said, "Oh, yes, Carl.
Sure you are. Sure."

674
00:33:05,875 --> 00:33:08,708
Man:
Much of the exhausting
and aggressive investigation

675
00:33:08,708 --> 00:33:13,208
on Watergate was done
by Carl Bernstein
and Bob Woodward,

676
00:33:13,208 --> 00:33:16,166
who went from local
reporting on the Post

677
00:33:16,166 --> 00:33:19,333
to the Pulitzer Prize
in one year.

678
00:33:19,333 --> 00:33:22,375
Jacob:
What was he like
to go out with?

679
00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:24,875
He was fun.
He was so fun.

680
00:33:24,875 --> 00:33:27,333
He was intense.
He was passionate.

681
00:33:27,333 --> 00:33:31,250
He was driven by outrage,
which I loved,

682
00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:33,542
'cause I too
was driven by outrage--

683
00:33:33,542 --> 00:33:36,458
political outrage.
It was exciting.

684
00:33:36,458 --> 00:33:40,083
Mm-hmm.
And he...

685
00:33:40,083 --> 00:33:43,208
He was hard to tie down,
I think.

686
00:33:43,208 --> 00:33:46,917
What are you trying--
what are you trying
to ask me?

687
00:33:46,917 --> 00:33:48,834
(laughs) No!
Sounds like--

688
00:33:48,834 --> 00:33:51,375
Let's play one
of your mother's
charade games.

689
00:33:51,375 --> 00:33:55,208
Are you trying to find out
if he was wildly unfaithful

690
00:33:55,208 --> 00:33:58,125
and would try
and call my friends
from my apartment

691
00:33:58,125 --> 00:33:59,875
to go out with them
at the same time?

692
00:33:59,875 --> 00:34:02,417
Is this what
you're asking me?
Well, did he?

693
00:34:02,417 --> 00:34:06,000
I don't remember that.
(laughs)

694
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,166
She had to know this
going in,

695
00:34:08,166 --> 00:34:11,458
a little bit,
didn't she?

696
00:34:11,458 --> 00:34:15,125
Your dad was

697
00:34:15,125 --> 00:34:18,125
so intense

698
00:34:18,125 --> 00:34:20,834
in his aura

699
00:34:20,834 --> 00:34:23,083
that you would be
swept away kind of

700
00:34:23,083 --> 00:34:25,583
in his ferocity,

701
00:34:25,583 --> 00:34:28,250
in a kind
of enchanting way.

702
00:34:28,250 --> 00:34:31,000
I don't think
she questioned it.

703
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,959
I think they fell
madly in love.

704
00:34:32,959 --> 00:34:36,333
They were just absolutely,
at that period,

705
00:34:36,333 --> 00:34:38,417
made for each other.

706
00:34:38,417 --> 00:34:42,291
Carl:
As happens
in great love affairs,

707
00:34:42,291 --> 00:34:46,375
you want the other person
to know who you are

708
00:34:46,375 --> 00:34:48,917
at the most intimate
and deepest levels.

709
00:34:48,917 --> 00:34:51,583
I think we came
very quickly

710
00:34:51,583 --> 00:34:56,458
to a deep understanding
of who the other person was.

711
00:34:58,125 --> 00:35:00,834
Liz Smith:
I-- I just loved him.

712
00:35:00,834 --> 00:35:02,917
He was fun to be around.

713
00:35:02,917 --> 00:35:06,125
We were all star-struck.

714
00:35:06,125 --> 00:35:09,583
Carl was a star.

715
00:35:09,583 --> 00:35:13,041
Whatever else he was,
he was a star.

716
00:35:13,041 --> 00:35:16,458
It was like
a celebrity marriage.

717
00:35:16,458 --> 00:35:19,458
They were
a celebrity couple,

718
00:35:19,458 --> 00:35:22,500
which clearly
they allowed to happen,

719
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:25,250
or perhaps
they wanted it to happen.

720
00:35:25,250 --> 00:35:27,417
If she had a failing,

721
00:35:27,417 --> 00:35:32,375
for me,
it was her overwhelming need

722
00:35:32,375 --> 00:35:34,708
to have success.

723
00:35:34,708 --> 00:35:36,583
Maybe that had to do
with the fact

724
00:35:36,583 --> 00:35:39,875
that her parents got there,
but didn't get there,

725
00:35:39,875 --> 00:35:43,959
and maybe she felt
that that's what

726
00:35:43,959 --> 00:35:47,208
tipped them into whatever
drinking problems they have.

727
00:35:47,208 --> 00:35:50,542
But it wasn't going
to happen to her.

728
00:35:56,333 --> 00:36:01,041
Nora:
I'd left New York City
to move to Washington, DC,

729
00:36:01,041 --> 00:36:06,417
for what I sincerely thought
would be the rest of my life.

730
00:36:06,417 --> 00:36:09,291
She was not
a Washington person.
She was a New York person.

731
00:36:09,291 --> 00:36:12,166
Washington was not
her natural habitat.

732
00:36:12,166 --> 00:36:14,417
I don't--
I don't think she liked it.

733
00:36:14,417 --> 00:36:16,959
She did not like Washington.

734
00:36:16,959 --> 00:36:18,875
She hated Washington.

735
00:36:18,875 --> 00:36:21,250
Jacob:
To her, the city was a burg,

736
00:36:21,250 --> 00:36:23,875
a place where ideas
went to die

737
00:36:23,875 --> 00:36:27,125
and diversity existed
mainly as a campaign slogan.

738
00:36:27,125 --> 00:36:30,375
She had to find a way there,
you know?

739
00:36:30,375 --> 00:36:32,834
Well, she's very good
at that.

740
00:36:32,834 --> 00:36:37,250
She managed somehow
to import New York
to Washington.

741
00:36:37,250 --> 00:36:40,417
And then they had
that incredible house
in Bridgehampton, Trees.

742
00:36:40,417 --> 00:36:43,083
And I would come back
from London and go out

743
00:36:43,083 --> 00:36:44,583
and visit them
at that house,

744
00:36:44,583 --> 00:36:46,125
and there would be
your mother cooking,

745
00:36:46,125 --> 00:36:47,625
and there was
your mother pregnant,

746
00:36:47,625 --> 00:36:49,291
and suddenly,
there you were in a stroller,

747
00:36:49,291 --> 00:36:51,125
and there you were
in a playpen,

748
00:36:51,125 --> 00:36:53,792
and there you were
always by-- with her.

749
00:36:53,792 --> 00:36:56,083
There was this one
incredible letter

750
00:36:56,083 --> 00:36:57,917
that I got from her.

751
00:36:57,917 --> 00:37:00,542
She wrote to me
the most beautiful
description

752
00:37:00,542 --> 00:37:03,542
of what it meant for her
to be your mother

753
00:37:03,542 --> 00:37:05,250
and to see her little baby.

754
00:37:05,250 --> 00:37:09,041
And she said,
"I just stare at Jacob
all day long.

755
00:37:09,041 --> 00:37:10,834
"He is a dish of ice cream.

756
00:37:10,834 --> 00:37:14,500
"Nothing ever I've done
has given me the happiness

757
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:16,959
that this has."

758
00:37:16,959 --> 00:37:20,792
One night
when your mother was pregnant,

759
00:37:20,792 --> 00:37:25,792
and she waddled down
to our house in Bridgehampton
with Carl,

760
00:37:25,792 --> 00:37:28,417
and just the four of us
had dinner in the kitchen,

761
00:37:28,417 --> 00:37:30,083
sitting around
a round table.

762
00:37:30,083 --> 00:37:32,417
And they left late,
I remember,

763
00:37:32,417 --> 00:37:34,500
you know, it was after 11:00,

764
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:38,166
um, and they walked home,
and Binky and I looked
at each other

765
00:37:38,166 --> 00:37:40,250
and said,
"Boy, are they happy."

766
00:37:40,250 --> 00:37:44,291
And literally a month later,
the marriage went kaput.

767
00:37:44,291 --> 00:37:46,375
When they split up,
I was dumbfounded.

768
00:37:46,375 --> 00:37:47,792
I was shocked.

769
00:37:50,708 --> 00:37:53,000
I-- I know about you
and Thelma Rice.

770
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,625
I know everything.
It's all here.
Shit.

771
00:37:56,625 --> 00:37:59,166
You didn't even
have the decency
to hide the evidence.

772
00:37:59,166 --> 00:38:02,500
You just threw it
in a drawer.

773
00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:05,542
Hotels, motels.

774
00:38:05,542 --> 00:38:08,792
Oh, shit.
You couldn't even pay cash,

775
00:38:08,792 --> 00:38:10,333
like a normal philanderer.

776
00:38:10,333 --> 00:38:12,834
You charged everything.
I mean, look at this.

777
00:38:12,834 --> 00:38:15,291
Flowers--
look at all these flowers
that bought for her!

778
00:38:15,291 --> 00:38:18,959
And you occasionally
brought me home a bunch
of wilted Zinnias.

779
00:38:18,959 --> 00:38:22,500
How can you do this?
If I'm such a bitch,
then tell me!

780
00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:26,291
Don't do this.
We have a baby, Mark!

781
00:38:26,291 --> 00:38:28,542
We have another baby
coming!

782
00:38:28,542 --> 00:38:31,166
Don't you even care
about them?

783
00:38:31,166 --> 00:38:33,041
I-- I almost fainted

784
00:38:33,041 --> 00:38:35,917
when she said,
"I want you to print this,

785
00:38:35,917 --> 00:38:38,750
that Carl and I
are divorcing."

786
00:38:38,750 --> 00:38:43,750
I think-- I think
she wanted it to be final.

787
00:38:51,375 --> 00:38:54,208
Carl:
A little while later,

788
00:38:54,208 --> 00:38:57,583
I went to the G7 summit

789
00:38:57,583 --> 00:39:00,125
and got upstairs to the room

790
00:39:00,125 --> 00:39:02,041
and I called your mom
and said,

791
00:39:02,041 --> 00:39:03,708
"Why don't you
get on a plane

792
00:39:03,708 --> 00:39:06,458
"and come here and let's see
what we can do here?

793
00:39:06,458 --> 00:39:10,250
I don't think we really
want to go this way."

794
00:39:10,250 --> 00:39:12,917
And, um, she said no.

795
00:39:14,834 --> 00:39:17,667
Gottlieb:
When your brother Max
was born,

796
00:39:17,667 --> 00:39:20,083
she and you

797
00:39:20,083 --> 00:39:22,125
and Max and his nurse

798
00:39:22,125 --> 00:39:24,041
all moved
into this house

799
00:39:24,041 --> 00:39:26,500
and stayed here for about,
I don't know,

800
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:28,000
four, five, six weeks.

801
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,375
In fact, you used to be
in this very room.

802
00:39:30,375 --> 00:39:33,250
You were last in this room,
I think, 33 years ago.

803
00:39:33,250 --> 00:39:35,583
So we all lived together

804
00:39:35,583 --> 00:39:38,959
in a very emotional moment
in her life,

805
00:39:38,959 --> 00:39:41,166
and she
was very vulnerable.

806
00:39:41,166 --> 00:39:44,125
She didn't want people
to know how hurt she was.

807
00:39:44,125 --> 00:39:45,959
That was not her way.

808
00:39:45,959 --> 00:39:49,375
So she determined
to put a good face on it
and she did.

809
00:39:49,375 --> 00:39:53,875
She was coming back,
rebounding, to become Nora,

810
00:39:53,875 --> 00:39:56,625
and looking at it
the way the person
who wrote Heartburn

811
00:39:56,625 --> 00:39:58,792
came to look at it.

812
00:39:58,792 --> 00:40:01,625
Well, now Nora Ephron's
first novel Heartburn

813
00:40:01,625 --> 00:40:04,125
has gossips and book critics
alike asking,

814
00:40:04,125 --> 00:40:05,792
"Nora, is this your life?"

815
00:40:05,792 --> 00:40:09,625
You know, every novelist--
I'm not much of a novelist,

816
00:40:09,625 --> 00:40:11,291
I just have written
one novel.

817
00:40:11,291 --> 00:40:14,166
But everyone uses
his or her own life.

818
00:40:14,166 --> 00:40:16,542
She had detachment,
so that she was able

819
00:40:16,542 --> 00:40:19,291
to be her own
helicopter pilot,

820
00:40:19,291 --> 00:40:22,375
flying up when she was
in front of her typewriter

821
00:40:22,375 --> 00:40:24,417
and getting it down
without feeling

822
00:40:24,417 --> 00:40:28,166
the need
to vomit her problems
all over someone.

823
00:40:28,166 --> 00:40:31,250
Very, very few,
if any, people

824
00:40:31,250 --> 00:40:32,834
that I can think of

825
00:40:32,834 --> 00:40:37,041
have ever survived
being publicly cuckolded.

826
00:40:37,041 --> 00:40:40,291
Nora being the exception
that it's like

827
00:40:40,291 --> 00:40:44,000
those photographs of cats
that somebody took

828
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:49,125
in which they've decided
to change direction
in mid jump.

829
00:40:49,125 --> 00:40:54,208
'Cause what she did
is in mid jump,

830
00:40:54,208 --> 00:40:57,000
she moved
to the Gottliebs' house

831
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,750
and cried for six months

832
00:40:59,750 --> 00:41:03,750
and wrote it funny.

833
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:06,500
And in writing it funny,

834
00:41:06,500 --> 00:41:08,375
she won.

835
00:41:08,375 --> 00:41:14,166
And betrayed women
all over the world knew it

836
00:41:14,166 --> 00:41:16,583
and cheered.

837
00:41:21,667 --> 00:41:24,000
Nora:
I had gotten
on the shuttle to New York

838
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,417
a few hours after
discovering the affair,

839
00:41:26,417 --> 00:41:30,542
which I learned about
from a really disgusting
inscription to my husband

840
00:41:30,542 --> 00:41:34,500
in a book of children's songs
she had given him.

841
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:37,208
Children's songs.

842
00:41:37,208 --> 00:41:40,083
"Now you can sing
these songs to Sam"

843
00:41:40,083 --> 00:41:42,375
was part of
the disgusting inscription,

844
00:41:42,375 --> 00:41:46,750
and I can't begin to tell you
how it sent me up the wall,

845
00:41:46,750 --> 00:41:50,417
the idea of my
two-year-old child, my baby,

846
00:41:50,417 --> 00:41:53,625
involved in some dopey
inscriptive way

847
00:41:53,625 --> 00:41:55,959
in this affair
between my husband,

848
00:41:55,959 --> 00:41:57,917
a fairly short person,

849
00:41:57,917 --> 00:42:00,917
and Thelma Rice,
a fairly tall person

850
00:42:00,917 --> 00:42:03,417
with a neck as long as an arm

851
00:42:03,417 --> 00:42:05,375
and a nose as long as a thumb,

852
00:42:05,375 --> 00:42:08,041
and you should see her legs,
never mind her feet,

853
00:42:08,041 --> 00:42:11,083
which are sort of splayed.

854
00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:17,667
Uh, but I mean, isn't that
an ugly circumstance?

855
00:42:17,667 --> 00:42:19,625
Doesn't that strike you
as being just awful?

856
00:42:19,625 --> 00:42:22,417
Well, but sort of funny,
really, when you think
about it.

857
00:42:22,417 --> 00:42:24,208
Oh, boy, I don't know.

858
00:42:24,208 --> 00:42:26,000
Seven-and-a-half-months
pregnant

859
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,208
and the heroine here
discovers

860
00:42:28,208 --> 00:42:29,959
her husband is
out with Thelma.
Yes.

861
00:42:29,959 --> 00:42:31,458
Oh, I don't know.

862
00:42:31,458 --> 00:42:33,542
And seeing
the same psychoanalyst

863
00:42:33,542 --> 00:42:36,583
at the family rate
with Thelma.

864
00:42:36,583 --> 00:42:37,959
See, this is ugliness.
Yes.

865
00:42:37,959 --> 00:42:40,458
This is just...
(audience applauding)

866
00:42:41,834 --> 00:42:43,667
Jacob:
Do you think
she had ambivalence at all

867
00:42:43,667 --> 00:42:45,125
about writing the book?

868
00:42:45,125 --> 00:42:46,625
Cohen:
She was going to do this

869
00:42:46,625 --> 00:42:48,291
and it was all going
to be okay.

870
00:42:48,291 --> 00:42:51,291
And people who worried
about the consequences of it

871
00:42:51,291 --> 00:42:53,125
didn't understand
who she was

872
00:42:53,125 --> 00:42:54,959
and how she was going
to handle it.

873
00:42:54,959 --> 00:42:57,750
Well, to love someone
so much, or to think
that you--

874
00:42:57,750 --> 00:43:00,458
Streep:
When we were
making  Heartburn,

875
00:43:00,458 --> 00:43:03,125
they got Jack Nicholson
to play the husband.

876
00:43:03,125 --> 00:43:06,834
And Mike
was asking Nora,

877
00:43:06,834 --> 00:43:09,041
"Well, don't you think
we need a little bit more

878
00:43:09,041 --> 00:43:11,708
of an understanding
of him?"

879
00:43:11,708 --> 00:43:15,500
And she was like,
steam coming...

880
00:43:15,500 --> 00:43:17,792
And I said to Mike,
"I think, you know,

881
00:43:17,792 --> 00:43:22,333
"I think it's really
that this is about

882
00:43:22,333 --> 00:43:24,500
"the person who got hit
by the bus.

883
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:26,667
It's not about the bus."

884
00:43:26,667 --> 00:43:30,917
When the dream breaks
into a million tiny
little pieces,

885
00:43:30,917 --> 00:43:32,333
which leaves you
with a choice,

886
00:43:32,333 --> 00:43:34,583
you can either stick with it,
which is unbearable,

887
00:43:34,583 --> 00:43:38,000
or you can just go off
and dream another dream.

888
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,291
Jacob: The divorce
between my parents
went on for years...

889
00:43:45,291 --> 00:43:47,417
Can I have the, uh,
car keys, please?

890
00:43:47,417 --> 00:43:49,417
...and like
many celebrity breakups,

891
00:43:49,417 --> 00:43:51,125
had less to do
with heartbreak

892
00:43:51,125 --> 00:43:53,542
than a mutual obsession
with reputation.

893
00:43:53,542 --> 00:43:56,417
They fought over custody
and child support

894
00:43:56,417 --> 00:43:59,625
and the movie adaptation
of  Heartburn.

895
00:43:59,625 --> 00:44:01,834
For my mother,

896
00:44:01,834 --> 00:44:04,542
Heartburn was her central act
of resilience.

897
00:44:04,542 --> 00:44:08,083
To my father,
it was steeped in revenge.

898
00:44:08,083 --> 00:44:12,750
Carl:
It was really about how

899
00:44:12,750 --> 00:44:15,041
you would be affected

900
00:44:15,041 --> 00:44:19,375
by a huge Hollywood movie
coming out

901
00:44:19,375 --> 00:44:22,417
when you were six years old,

902
00:44:22,417 --> 00:44:26,500
and whether
it would become a circus.

903
00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:30,583
And I said,
"If you want to make
this movie so badly,

904
00:44:30,583 --> 00:44:33,708
"you have to give me
joint custody.

905
00:44:33,708 --> 00:44:37,500
"Also, at no time
will there be any depiction

906
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:40,834
"of the father in the movie
shown as anything

907
00:44:40,834 --> 00:44:43,583
but a loving
and caring parent."

908
00:44:43,583 --> 00:44:46,667
And she agreed.
Those are the terms
of the divorce.

909
00:44:46,667 --> 00:44:49,250
And Mike Nichols
was a signatory

910
00:44:49,250 --> 00:44:52,875
to the divorce--
it's the craziest
divorce ever.

911
00:44:52,875 --> 00:44:55,125
Jacob:
In retrospect,

912
00:44:55,125 --> 00:44:58,083
the feud between them
seems less a question
of right and wrong

913
00:44:58,083 --> 00:45:00,834
than the unfortunate
untangling of two people

914
00:45:00,834 --> 00:45:02,750
who took up
way too much space

915
00:45:02,750 --> 00:45:05,250
to ever be right
for each other.

916
00:45:05,250 --> 00:45:07,917
When the movie came out,

917
00:45:07,917 --> 00:45:10,667
it was not the success
the book was.

918
00:45:10,667 --> 00:45:13,458
And one thing critics debated
was which was worse:

919
00:45:13,458 --> 00:45:15,625
The parent who cheats

920
00:45:15,625 --> 00:45:18,625
or the parent who
essentially tells
her two children about it?

921
00:45:18,625 --> 00:45:20,083
Carl:
Look, there's no question.

922
00:45:20,083 --> 00:45:22,291
I did not want
that movie made.

923
00:45:22,291 --> 00:45:24,542
I'm sure there's
some self-interest in it

924
00:45:24,542 --> 00:45:26,625
about the way
I would be portrayed,

925
00:45:26,625 --> 00:45:29,750
but I thought
this would really interfere

926
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:35,375
with how you would
regard your father.

927
00:45:35,375 --> 00:45:37,375
And for a while, it did.

928
00:45:37,375 --> 00:45:39,625
Well, that's
really interesting,
what you say.

929
00:45:39,625 --> 00:45:43,166
There you go--
"And for a while, it did."

930
00:45:43,166 --> 00:45:47,125
Jacob:
So who do you think
it was harder on, him or her?

931
00:45:47,125 --> 00:45:50,250
Auletta:
I think it was harder
in the long run on him.

932
00:45:50,250 --> 00:45:52,792
Any time you walk around
thinking people

933
00:45:52,792 --> 00:45:54,959
are talking about you,

934
00:45:54,959 --> 00:45:57,708
whispering about you,
making fun of you,

935
00:45:57,708 --> 00:46:00,166
um, it's hurtful.

936
00:46:00,166 --> 00:46:03,792
At one moment,
he was this world-famous hero

937
00:46:03,792 --> 00:46:06,667
and the next minute,
he was this goat.

938
00:46:06,667 --> 00:46:09,000
And it was--
it was a very painful period.

939
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,542
And it lasted for him,
I think, longer than
it did for Nora.

940
00:46:14,166 --> 00:46:17,708
Nora:
Moving On.

941
00:46:18,834 --> 00:46:21,333
In February, 1980,

942
00:46:21,333 --> 00:46:25,083
two months after
the birth of my second child

943
00:46:25,083 --> 00:46:27,667
and the simultaneous
end of my marriage,

944
00:46:27,667 --> 00:46:29,834
I fell in love.

945
00:46:29,834 --> 00:46:32,667
I was looking
for a place to live,

946
00:46:32,667 --> 00:46:35,875
and one afternoon,
I walked just ten steps

947
00:46:35,875 --> 00:46:39,583
into an apartment
on the Upper West Side
of Manhattan

948
00:46:39,583 --> 00:46:42,041
and my heart stood still.

949
00:46:42,041 --> 00:46:46,542
Ten steps in and I said,
"I'll take it."

950
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:49,750
I honestly believed

951
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:52,834
that at the lowest moment
in my adult life,

952
00:46:52,834 --> 00:46:55,917
I'd been rescued
by a building.

953
00:46:57,834 --> 00:47:00,000
Delia:
I mean, the great thing
about Nora,

954
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,083
she just refused
to go down, ever,
and then she comes back,

955
00:47:03,083 --> 00:47:04,834
and she had no money,
by the way.

956
00:47:04,834 --> 00:47:07,250
She had no money,
and she wrote  Heartburn.

957
00:47:07,250 --> 00:47:09,375
And so, I'm sure
she just infuriated--

958
00:47:09,375 --> 00:47:12,375
that's my speculation--
the entire community
of journalists

959
00:47:12,375 --> 00:47:14,542
who thought
she was getting hers back.

960
00:47:14,542 --> 00:47:16,917
And instead,
she not only

961
00:47:16,917 --> 00:47:19,000
does she write
a bestseller,

962
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,750
but then it gets bought
for the movies,

963
00:47:20,750 --> 00:47:22,500
and the next thing you know,
she's a screenwriter,

964
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:25,959
which is the move
that so many journalists
wanted to make,

965
00:47:25,959 --> 00:47:27,417
and she made it.

966
00:47:27,417 --> 00:47:30,083
Nora:
When I had my children,

967
00:47:30,083 --> 00:47:32,041
I thought, well,
I can't go on

968
00:47:32,041 --> 00:47:34,083
doing journalism
'cause I have a baby,

969
00:47:34,083 --> 00:47:36,917
and I can't go
and do these long
reporting pieces

970
00:47:36,917 --> 00:47:38,959
that I was doing
in  Esquire.

971
00:47:38,959 --> 00:47:41,208
And I thought,
well, I'm going
to write screenplays now

972
00:47:41,208 --> 00:47:44,291
because I need the money,
and thank goodness
I write screenplays.

973
00:47:44,291 --> 00:47:46,250
Even if they aren't
being made into movies,

974
00:47:46,250 --> 00:47:48,125
it pays a lot better
than journalism.

975
00:47:48,125 --> 00:47:52,750
Then one of them got made
by Mike Nichols,

976
00:47:52,750 --> 00:47:56,417
and he invited me
and Alice Arlen,

977
00:47:56,417 --> 00:47:58,875
whom I wrote it with,
to Texas

978
00:47:58,875 --> 00:48:01,291
to watch him make Silkwood.

979
00:48:01,291 --> 00:48:03,500
That was really interesting.

980
00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:08,166
And that was when
I think I truly became
a screenwriter.

981
00:48:08,166 --> 00:48:12,166
(static, alarm sounding)

982
00:48:17,291 --> 00:48:19,750
Nichols:
I knew big time

983
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:23,083
that this charming,
brilliant writer

984
00:48:23,083 --> 00:48:25,792
wants to be a movie director
and will be,

985
00:48:25,792 --> 00:48:29,834
'cause she was out and out
studying it.

986
00:48:29,834 --> 00:48:32,625
Mike Nichols, who,
because he was originally

987
00:48:32,625 --> 00:48:37,000
a theater director,
was very welcoming
to screenwriters,

988
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,375
always wanted them there,
always wanted their input.

989
00:48:40,375 --> 00:48:42,875
So I was suddenly
watching something

990
00:48:42,875 --> 00:48:45,333
that I knew nothing about,

991
00:48:45,333 --> 00:48:48,083
and I was riveted.

992
00:48:48,083 --> 00:48:51,000
How'd that plutonium
get in my house?

993
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,333
Did you put it there?
Did I what?

994
00:48:53,333 --> 00:48:55,500
What are you, crazy?

995
00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:59,542
Jacob:
As my mom moved
into writing screenplays,

996
00:48:59,542 --> 00:49:01,917
her work became
less autobiographical,

997
00:49:01,917 --> 00:49:06,583
but she continued
to find herself in
the characters she wrote.

998
00:49:06,583 --> 00:49:10,125
You know, the first time
we met, I really didn't
like you that much.

999
00:49:10,125 --> 00:49:12,333
I didn't like you.
Yeah, you did.

1000
00:49:12,333 --> 00:49:15,291
You were just so uptight then.
You're much softer now.

1001
00:49:15,291 --> 00:49:17,834
You know,
I hate that kind of remark.

1002
00:49:17,834 --> 00:49:20,208
It sounds like a compliment,
but really it's an insult.

1003
00:49:20,208 --> 00:49:22,458
Nora:
When Harry Met Sally
was Rob's idea.

1004
00:49:22,458 --> 00:49:25,583
Rob said one day
in a meeting,

1005
00:49:25,583 --> 00:49:28,500
"Let's do a movie
about a man and a woman

1006
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:30,333
who become friends

1007
00:49:30,333 --> 00:49:33,917
and don't have sex
because it will ruin
the relationship,

1008
00:49:33,917 --> 00:49:36,375
and then they have sex
and it ruins the relationship.

1009
00:49:36,375 --> 00:49:37,667
That's what we started with.

1010
00:49:37,667 --> 00:49:42,333
So I interviewed Rob
and his producing partner

1011
00:49:42,333 --> 00:49:45,875
and they told me
the secrets of men.

1012
00:49:45,875 --> 00:49:48,291
So she interviewed us,
took all these notes,

1013
00:49:48,291 --> 00:49:52,708
and then went back
and crafted a screenplay.

1014
00:49:52,708 --> 00:49:56,792
Nora:
From my script
for  When Harry Met Sally.

1015
00:49:56,792 --> 00:50:00,208
Harry:
"Why don't you tell me
the story of your life?"

1016
00:50:00,208 --> 00:50:02,417
Sally:
"The story of my life?"

1017
00:50:02,417 --> 00:50:06,333
Harry:
"We've got 18 hours to kill
before we hit New York."

1018
00:50:06,333 --> 00:50:08,041
Sally...

1019
00:50:08,041 --> 00:50:10,250
The story of my life
isn't even going to get us
out of Chicago.

1020
00:50:10,250 --> 00:50:11,750
I mean, nothing's
happened to me yet.

1021
00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:13,250
That's why
I'm going to New York.

1022
00:50:13,250 --> 00:50:14,875
So something'll
happen to you?
Yes.

1023
00:50:14,875 --> 00:50:16,667
Like what?

1024
00:50:16,667 --> 00:50:19,208
Like I'm going
to journalism school
to become a reporter.

1025
00:50:19,208 --> 00:50:21,250
So you can write about things
that happen to other people.

1026
00:50:21,250 --> 00:50:24,125
Nora:
So I started
with Rob as Harry.

1027
00:50:24,125 --> 00:50:27,875
And, you know,
in that sort of
mathematical way,

1028
00:50:27,875 --> 00:50:32,208
if-- if he is gloomy,
she is cheerful,

1029
00:50:32,208 --> 00:50:35,417
and so that gave me Sally.

1030
00:50:35,417 --> 00:50:38,542
I happen to be a fairly
cheerful person, so...

1031
00:50:38,542 --> 00:50:41,083
Sally is more or less me.

1032
00:50:41,083 --> 00:50:43,750
I am as big a nightmare

1033
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:47,291
when ordering
in a restaurant
as she was.

1034
00:50:47,291 --> 00:50:48,542
I'd like the chef's salad,
please,

1035
00:50:48,542 --> 00:50:50,166
with the oil and vinegar
on the side

1036
00:50:50,166 --> 00:50:51,500
and the apple pie à la mode.

1037
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:53,750
Apple... à la mode.

1038
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:55,625
But I'd like the pie heated,

1039
00:50:55,625 --> 00:50:57,917
and I don't want
the ice cream on the top,
I want it on the side.

1040
00:50:57,917 --> 00:51:00,083
And I'd like strawberry
instead of vanilla
if you have it.

1041
00:51:00,083 --> 00:51:01,959
If not, then no ice cream,
just whipped cream,

1042
00:51:01,959 --> 00:51:04,458
but only if it's real.
If it's out of a can,
then nothing.

1043
00:51:04,458 --> 00:51:05,625
Not even the pie?

1044
00:51:05,625 --> 00:51:08,500
No, just the pie,
but then not heated.

1045
00:51:08,500 --> 00:51:10,166
Uh-huh.

1046
00:51:10,166 --> 00:51:13,583
There was
a really particular rhythm
on the page--

1047
00:51:13,583 --> 00:51:16,291
very, very short sentences
that people didn't--

1048
00:51:16,291 --> 00:51:18,125
we didn't-- there wasn't
a lot of dialogue,

1049
00:51:18,125 --> 00:51:21,542
but it was rapid
and rat-a-tat-tat,
rat-a-tat-tat.

1050
00:51:21,542 --> 00:51:23,417
Okay, there's this guy.

1051
00:51:23,417 --> 00:51:24,917
What's he look like?

1052
00:51:24,917 --> 00:51:27,083
I don't know.
He's just kinda faceless.

1053
00:51:27,083 --> 00:51:30,083
Faceless guy, okay.
Then what?

1054
00:51:30,083 --> 00:51:32,333
He rips off my clothes.

1055
00:51:32,333 --> 00:51:34,333
Nora:
There are parts
of  When Harry Met Sally

1056
00:51:34,333 --> 00:51:37,417
that feel as if
they are essays,

1057
00:51:37,417 --> 00:51:40,375
just like the essays
I used to write,

1058
00:51:40,375 --> 00:51:43,333
only they're--
they're stuck in this movie

1059
00:51:43,333 --> 00:51:46,208
in their own
little dialogue ways.

1060
00:51:46,208 --> 00:51:47,583
That's it?

1061
00:51:47,583 --> 00:51:49,750
A faceless guy
rips off your clothes

1062
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:52,166
and that's the sex fantasy
you've been having
since you were 12?

1063
00:51:52,166 --> 00:51:53,708
Exactly the same?

1064
00:51:53,708 --> 00:51:56,667
Well, sometimes
I vary it a little.

1065
00:51:56,667 --> 00:51:59,125
Which part?
What I'm wearing.

1066
00:52:01,333 --> 00:52:03,875
The great scene about,
you know, faking the orgasm.

1067
00:52:03,875 --> 00:52:06,750
Right.
Yeah, was that scripted
by you?

1068
00:52:06,750 --> 00:52:08,333
Well, no.

1069
00:52:08,333 --> 00:52:10,375
Um, you mean the best scene
in this movie?

1070
00:52:10,375 --> 00:52:13,959
What that was,
was I asked them

1071
00:52:13,959 --> 00:52:15,708
about their lives
as single men.

1072
00:52:15,708 --> 00:52:18,125
And then they said to me,
okay, we've told you

1073
00:52:18,125 --> 00:52:19,959
some secrets about men.
Yeah.

1074
00:52:19,959 --> 00:52:23,875
Now tell us something
we don't know about women.

1075
00:52:23,875 --> 00:52:25,959
And I said,
"Women fake orgasms."

1076
00:52:25,959 --> 00:52:29,417
"No, that's not possible!
That's not true.
Women, really?"

1077
00:52:29,417 --> 00:52:31,375
It's just that all men
are sure it never
happened to them,

1078
00:52:31,375 --> 00:52:33,041
and most women,
at one time or another,

1079
00:52:33,041 --> 00:52:34,834
have done it,
so you do the math.

1080
00:52:34,834 --> 00:52:38,000
You don't think
that I could tell
the difference?

1081
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,375
No.
Get out of here.

1082
00:52:40,375 --> 00:52:42,417
So out of this conversation

1083
00:52:42,417 --> 00:52:44,542
came this scene.

1084
00:52:44,542 --> 00:52:47,834
Well, then we did it
in a read-through

1085
00:52:47,834 --> 00:52:49,542
and Meg Ryan said...

1086
00:52:49,542 --> 00:52:51,500
"Well, why don't I
just do it?"

1087
00:52:51,500 --> 00:52:55,291
And they said,
"Would you do that?"

1088
00:52:58,875 --> 00:53:00,625
Ooh.

1089
00:53:00,625 --> 00:53:02,917
Oh.

1090
00:53:04,083 --> 00:53:06,834
Ooh.

1091
00:53:06,834 --> 00:53:09,000
Are you okay?

1092
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:10,417
(moaning)

1093
00:53:10,417 --> 00:53:12,583
Meg, I think,
had the idea of doing it

1094
00:53:12,583 --> 00:53:15,291
in an incongruous place
like a deli,

1095
00:53:15,291 --> 00:53:17,208
and that gave birth
to the scene.

1096
00:53:17,208 --> 00:53:19,083
Oh, God!

1097
00:53:19,083 --> 00:53:20,667
Oh, yes!

1098
00:53:20,667 --> 00:53:23,917
Yes, yes, yes!

1099
00:53:23,917 --> 00:53:25,542
Yes, yes!

1100
00:53:25,542 --> 00:53:29,333
Ahh! Oh, yes!

1101
00:53:29,333 --> 00:53:32,625
Yes, yes! Oh!

1102
00:53:32,625 --> 00:53:35,000
Yes, yes!
(banging table)

1103
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,125
Yes, yes, yes, yes!

1104
00:53:38,125 --> 00:53:42,125
Oh, oh, oh!

1105
00:53:42,125 --> 00:53:44,291
Oh, God.

1106
00:53:44,291 --> 00:53:46,291
Oh.

1107
00:53:48,500 --> 00:53:50,959
Meg Ryan:
And then Billy came up
with that--

1108
00:53:50,959 --> 00:53:53,083
that topper.

1109
00:53:53,083 --> 00:53:55,667
I'll have what she's having.

1110
00:53:55,667 --> 00:54:00,250
Your mother was one
of the greatest observers

1111
00:54:00,250 --> 00:54:01,792
of men and women

1112
00:54:01,792 --> 00:54:04,417
and how men and women
are with each other,

1113
00:54:04,417 --> 00:54:07,500
and her movies
reflected that.

1114
00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:09,625
Woman:
Do you find
that people think

1115
00:54:09,625 --> 00:54:11,583
you're an expert
on relationships?

1116
00:54:11,583 --> 00:54:14,583
I don't know that people
think I'm an expert
in relationships,

1117
00:54:14,583 --> 00:54:15,834
but I definitely am.

1118
00:54:18,500 --> 00:54:19,792
I am.
You are?

1119
00:54:19,792 --> 00:54:21,333
So people can come up
to you and--

1120
00:54:21,333 --> 00:54:24,000
They don't come up to me,
you understand,

1121
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,875
but if they were to,
I would be glad

1122
00:54:25,875 --> 00:54:28,041
to counsel them
at any given moment.

1123
00:54:28,041 --> 00:54:30,125
Total strangers
could come up to me

1124
00:54:30,125 --> 00:54:33,834
and I would be glad
to give them advice
about their relationships.

1125
00:54:33,834 --> 00:54:35,750
You know, little things
that come up in life,

1126
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:38,834
whether it involves a career,
a relationship or whatever,

1127
00:54:38,834 --> 00:54:40,834
and she would always
have, you know, "Dear Abby."

1128
00:54:40,834 --> 00:54:43,083
She was always--
she always had
the best answer

1129
00:54:43,083 --> 00:54:44,750
to your "Dear Abby"
question.

1130
00:54:44,750 --> 00:54:48,083
You wanted a straight answer,
you went to Nora.

1131
00:54:48,083 --> 00:54:52,000
You wanted to test something
that you were unsure of,

1132
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,708
you went to Nora.

1133
00:54:53,708 --> 00:54:56,250
And she was certain
about her opinions.

1134
00:54:56,250 --> 00:54:57,500
Jacob:
Yes.

1135
00:54:57,500 --> 00:54:59,542
Which a lot of people
are not.

1136
00:54:59,542 --> 00:55:02,917
She had such strong opinions
that they would just come out.

1137
00:55:02,917 --> 00:55:05,208
I mean, she really felt,
I think, a certain
responsibility

1138
00:55:05,208 --> 00:55:06,708
to set us all straight.

1139
00:55:06,708 --> 00:55:08,834
Jacob:
Did you get the judgment
with her?

1140
00:55:08,834 --> 00:55:10,250
Endless.

1141
00:55:10,250 --> 00:55:12,792
"You can't do this.
You mustn't do that.

1142
00:55:12,792 --> 00:55:16,708
I would rethink this.
You can't do that.
You can't..." Yes.

1143
00:55:16,708 --> 00:55:20,417
She was controlling in a way,
but not without her charm.

1144
00:55:20,417 --> 00:55:23,792
But she was in charge
of certain things,

1145
00:55:23,792 --> 00:55:27,250
and she was in charge
of your life when
you were with her.

1146
00:55:27,250 --> 00:55:29,625
A mark.
Man: B mark.

1147
00:55:29,625 --> 00:55:31,166
Joanne...

1148
00:55:31,166 --> 00:55:32,708
Auletta:
She came to realize,

1149
00:55:32,708 --> 00:55:34,250
if she's going
to have control,

1150
00:55:34,250 --> 00:55:36,291
which I think her life
was in part about--

1151
00:55:36,291 --> 00:55:37,625
gaining control--

1152
00:55:37,625 --> 00:55:39,500
she had to be
a director.

1153
00:55:39,500 --> 00:55:41,500
Nora:
Mike Nichols always
says this thing

1154
00:55:41,500 --> 00:55:43,417
that I love--
he says that

1155
00:55:43,417 --> 00:55:46,166
when you're a director,
it's like making love

1156
00:55:46,166 --> 00:55:48,291
in that you always
want to say,

1157
00:55:48,291 --> 00:55:50,583
"Is this
how other people do it?"

1158
00:55:50,583 --> 00:55:51,917
(man laughing)

1159
00:55:51,917 --> 00:55:54,000
Trust me, Jessica...

1160
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,750
Nora:
But I knew that if I was
going to direct something,

1161
00:55:56,750 --> 00:55:59,708
I needed a collaborator
on the script.

1162
00:55:59,708 --> 00:56:02,917
So I then write it
with my sister Delia.

1163
00:56:02,917 --> 00:56:06,583
The reason we both
loved the book

1164
00:56:06,583 --> 00:56:08,708
and wanted
to make a movie about it

1165
00:56:08,708 --> 00:56:12,083
was that it had
so many emotional overlaps.

1166
00:56:12,083 --> 00:56:15,000
It was about a mother

1167
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:19,792
who used the material
of her life as material,

1168
00:56:19,792 --> 00:56:22,375
which is what
our parents did.

1169
00:56:22,375 --> 00:56:24,583
How dare you?
How dare you use things

1170
00:56:24,583 --> 00:56:26,667
that you know about me
in public?

1171
00:56:26,667 --> 00:56:28,500
Delia:
It's about everything
we knew.

1172
00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:30,417
It was about sisterhood.

1173
00:56:30,417 --> 00:56:32,458
It was
about working mothers.

1174
00:56:32,458 --> 00:56:35,667
It was about a single mother.
It was about ambition,

1175
00:56:35,667 --> 00:56:37,125
which we totally got.

1176
00:56:37,125 --> 00:56:39,667
All artists use things
from their lives, Robin,

1177
00:56:39,667 --> 00:56:41,667
and I am no exception.

1178
00:56:41,667 --> 00:56:44,417
Delia:
But  This Is My Life
was not a hit.

1179
00:56:44,417 --> 00:56:47,834
So was she going
to get another movie?

1180
00:56:47,834 --> 00:56:51,000
She then did a rewrite
on the Sleepless  script

1181
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,166
and got hired
as the director on it.

1182
00:56:53,166 --> 00:56:54,792
Woman on radio:
If you've just tuned in,

1183
00:56:54,792 --> 00:56:57,875
we're talking
to Sleepless in Seattle.

1184
00:56:57,875 --> 00:56:59,750
You called
a radio station?

1185
00:56:59,750 --> 00:57:02,166
Christmas Eve,
he phones in one of those
radio call-in shows,

1186
00:57:02,166 --> 00:57:04,208
tells them...
His dad needs a new wife.

1187
00:57:04,208 --> 00:57:07,458
I heard it.
This kid calls up and says,
"My dad needs a wife."

1188
00:57:07,458 --> 00:57:09,000
Get out here.
Come on.

1189
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:10,750
Now, I'm not going
to go through this alone.

1190
00:57:10,750 --> 00:57:12,708
Delia:
The thing about movies is,

1191
00:57:12,708 --> 00:57:14,917
you have to make
the tough decision,

1192
00:57:14,917 --> 00:57:17,166
and often
somebody got fired,

1193
00:57:17,166 --> 00:57:19,708
and I was very happy
to be her sister,

1194
00:57:19,708 --> 00:57:23,083
(both laughing)
so it was not going to be me.

1195
00:57:23,083 --> 00:57:24,834
Kid needs a mother.

1196
00:57:24,834 --> 00:57:26,750
Delia:
'Cause we did replace
the actor on  Sleepless,

1197
00:57:26,750 --> 00:57:28,750
and thank God,
the young boy who came in

1198
00:57:28,750 --> 00:57:30,583
was just perfect
and wonderful.

1199
00:57:30,583 --> 00:57:33,875
The kid that we spent
all of this time auditioning

1200
00:57:33,875 --> 00:57:37,208
and getting ready and we loved
and he was so great,

1201
00:57:37,208 --> 00:57:40,750
freezes when
he sees Tom Hanks.
He can't act.

1202
00:57:40,750 --> 00:57:42,875
Phew! Man!
When she came and told me--

1203
00:57:42,875 --> 00:57:46,792
She didn't ask me,
"What do you think
if we replace so-and-so?"

1204
00:57:46,792 --> 00:57:48,959
She just said, "Listen,
we're making a change.

1205
00:57:48,959 --> 00:57:51,500
It's not working out."
And I said, "You're gonna
fire the kid?"

1206
00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:52,875
She'd give you that look,

1207
00:57:52,875 --> 00:57:54,667
and we called that look
the red dot.

1208
00:57:54,667 --> 00:57:57,792
Your mother would look--
if she got a double look,

1209
00:57:57,792 --> 00:58:00,542
it was like you had the--
you know, a laser from a gun

1210
00:58:00,542 --> 00:58:02,750
on our forehead
and you were about
to get whacked.

1211
00:58:02,750 --> 00:58:04,708
People got cut all the time.

1212
00:58:04,708 --> 00:58:06,542
They wouldn't read
a new draft,

1213
00:58:06,542 --> 00:58:08,208
and then you were done.

1214
00:58:08,208 --> 00:58:10,500
If you talked about
building the barn over here

1215
00:58:10,500 --> 00:58:12,708
that was taken out
two drafts ago--

1216
00:58:12,708 --> 00:58:14,375
"Window or aisle?"
(crew laughing)

1217
00:58:14,375 --> 00:58:16,875
That's all I can tell you,
you know?

1218
00:58:16,875 --> 00:58:18,542
"Morning
or afternoon flight?"

1219
00:58:18,542 --> 00:58:20,208
"Could I have a word
with you?"

1220
00:58:20,208 --> 00:58:23,792
I don't know the exact number
of assistants before me.

1221
00:58:23,792 --> 00:58:28,291
I feel like it's around 10,
maybe a dozen.

1222
00:58:28,291 --> 00:58:30,041
She spoke to actors
sometimes

1223
00:58:30,041 --> 00:58:32,583
in a way that some people
perceived as hostile,

1224
00:58:32,583 --> 00:58:34,667
but I didn't.
I knew her and I loved her,

1225
00:58:34,667 --> 00:58:36,667
and I was never afraid of her.

1226
00:58:36,667 --> 00:58:38,291
I always wanted
to please her,

1227
00:58:38,291 --> 00:58:40,083
but that's very different
than being afraid.

1228
00:58:40,083 --> 00:58:42,375
And the thing is,
she counseled people--

1229
00:58:42,375 --> 00:58:44,000
she gave counsel
to people, you know?

1230
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:45,458
I mean,
she really helped people.

1231
00:58:45,458 --> 00:58:47,542
You know, I mean,
way beyond their career.

1232
00:58:47,542 --> 00:58:50,333
When you got to know her,
you could almost
ask her anything.

1233
00:58:50,333 --> 00:58:53,917
Her advice had, like,
a deep practicality to it.

1234
00:58:53,917 --> 00:58:56,041
It was like a feeling,
like confiding in a friend

1235
00:58:56,041 --> 00:58:57,834
and having them say,
"I understand."

1236
00:58:57,834 --> 00:58:59,750
Man:
Cut! Cut it!

1237
00:58:59,750 --> 00:59:03,917
Rita Wilson:
I always felt like
I never had a mentor,

1238
00:59:03,917 --> 00:59:06,458
but I had that in Nora.

1239
00:59:06,458 --> 00:59:09,333
Kind of from
Sleepless in Seattle  on,

1240
00:59:09,333 --> 00:59:12,625
she sort of was my mentor.

1241
00:59:13,792 --> 00:59:16,375
Jacob:
My mom was kind
and she was generous,

1242
00:59:16,375 --> 00:59:17,792
really generous.

1243
00:59:17,792 --> 00:59:21,208
She was also stern
and unfailingly honest,

1244
00:59:21,208 --> 00:59:24,792
and the combination
of those things made people
seek her approval.

1245
00:59:24,792 --> 00:59:28,834
It is very powerful
to be someone who is both
loved and feared.

1246
00:59:28,834 --> 00:59:30,875
Jacob:
Did she zing people?

1247
00:59:30,875 --> 00:59:32,792
Meg Ryan:
Yeah, it was a little
irresistible.

1248
00:59:32,792 --> 00:59:34,792
'Cause I feel like
her allegiance to language

1249
00:59:34,792 --> 00:59:38,500
was sometimes more
than her allegiance
to someone's feelings.

1250
00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:42,583
It was just too good
of a setup

1251
00:59:42,583 --> 00:59:45,458
sometimes for her,
you know?

1252
00:59:45,458 --> 00:59:47,333
Man:
99-Jackson-1 marker.

1253
00:59:47,333 --> 00:59:50,708
Steven Spielberg:
I always wanted her
to like me.

1254
00:59:50,708 --> 00:59:52,375
I wanted her approval.
Mm-hmm.

1255
00:59:52,375 --> 00:59:54,500
I wanted her respect.
I wanted to make her laugh.

1256
00:59:54,500 --> 00:59:56,000
That was the big one.

1257
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,500
Spielberg:
I probably made Nora laugh
a handful of times

1258
00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:01,166
in the 21 years I knew her,

1259
01:00:01,166 --> 01:00:05,166
but it was just
like winning an Oscar.

1260
01:00:06,417 --> 01:00:08,375
It's now or never.

1261
01:00:08,375 --> 01:00:11,708
Nora:
One of the things
I always tell the actors

1262
01:00:11,708 --> 01:00:13,667
as we work
on this movie

1263
01:00:13,667 --> 01:00:15,917
is that it isn't a movie
about love,

1264
01:00:15,917 --> 01:00:18,041
it's a movie about love
in the movies.

1265
01:00:18,041 --> 01:00:20,458
Both (mouthing):
Winter must be cold

1266
01:00:20,458 --> 01:00:23,333
for those
with no warm memories.

1267
01:00:23,333 --> 01:00:27,083
For many of us,
a great deal of what
we feel about love

1268
01:00:27,083 --> 01:00:30,333
has been shaped
completely by movies.

1269
01:00:35,583 --> 01:00:37,708
Rose:
Tell me about love, though.

1270
01:00:37,708 --> 01:00:39,625
I mean,
is it unrealistic

1271
01:00:39,625 --> 01:00:41,542
to think of love
like Annie does?

1272
01:00:41,542 --> 01:00:44,959
That somehow there is magic
and you can have that

1273
01:00:44,959 --> 01:00:46,458
in your life and--

1274
01:00:46,458 --> 01:00:50,041
I think people
go back and forth
their whole lives.

1275
01:00:50,041 --> 01:00:54,041
They start out believing
in this very pure, simple,
stupid way

1276
01:00:54,041 --> 01:00:56,834
about destiny and how
there's one person out there

1277
01:00:56,834 --> 01:00:58,834
and you're going
to meet that person,

1278
01:00:58,834 --> 01:01:01,000
and then things happen,

1279
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,500
and eventually, finally,
after many mistakes

1280
01:01:04,500 --> 01:01:06,542
that you thought
were destiny,

1281
01:01:06,542 --> 01:01:08,583
you find someone
who was your destiny

1282
01:01:08,583 --> 01:01:10,542
and you say,
"Oh, I see.

1283
01:01:10,542 --> 01:01:13,041
"I had to go through
all the false destinies

1284
01:01:13,041 --> 01:01:15,250
to get to
the real destiny."

1285
01:01:15,250 --> 01:01:16,750
Sam.

1286
01:01:16,750 --> 01:01:18,917
It's nice to meet you.

1287
01:01:18,917 --> 01:01:21,208
♪ One smile
that cheers you ♪

1288
01:01:21,208 --> 01:01:25,125
♪ One face that lights
when it nears you ♪

1289
01:01:25,125 --> 01:01:27,291
♪ One girl, you're ♪

1290
01:01:27,291 --> 01:01:32,000
♪ You're everything to... ♪

1291
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,291
Gottlieb:
I think there was
a side of her

1292
01:01:34,291 --> 01:01:37,250
that was romantic,

1293
01:01:37,250 --> 01:01:39,667
and she believed
in true love,

1294
01:01:39,667 --> 01:01:42,417
and she thought
she had it.

1295
01:01:42,417 --> 01:01:44,125
I don't know,
I don't remember,

1296
01:01:44,125 --> 01:01:45,959
we never talked about it,
whether she thought

1297
01:01:45,959 --> 01:01:47,583
she had it
with Dan Greenburg.

1298
01:01:47,583 --> 01:01:49,250
She certainly thought
she had it with Carl.

1299
01:01:49,250 --> 01:01:52,250
And she knew she had it
with Nick.

1300
01:01:54,083 --> 01:01:57,625
Talese:
The man she married
in the last 20-plus years,

1301
01:01:57,625 --> 01:02:01,000
Nick Pileggi,
is a cousin of mine.

1302
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,583
I really am very close
to Nick,

1303
01:02:02,583 --> 01:02:04,959
and I never had a brother.
Nick was my brother.

1304
01:02:04,959 --> 01:02:08,250
When he met Nora,
she gave him a place

1305
01:02:08,250 --> 01:02:11,166
where he could
feel secure.

1306
01:02:11,166 --> 01:02:14,041
Bob Balaban:
Nick wasn't afraid
for her to be the star.

1307
01:02:14,041 --> 01:02:16,041
She got to have
a relationship,

1308
01:02:16,041 --> 01:02:18,375
she didn't have to spend
the whole time questioning.

1309
01:02:18,375 --> 01:02:21,208
He wasn't going
to wake up and be a drunk
at some point

1310
01:02:21,208 --> 01:02:23,291
or cheat on her,
or do any of the things

1311
01:02:23,291 --> 01:02:25,291
that people do
to disappoint you.

1312
01:02:25,291 --> 01:02:29,834
Reiner:
He wrote about guys

1313
01:02:29,834 --> 01:02:32,041
who were street-tough guys,

1314
01:02:32,041 --> 01:02:34,125
who were, you know,
Mafia types.

1315
01:02:34,125 --> 01:02:36,667
She wrote about love
and romance and all that.

1316
01:02:36,667 --> 01:02:40,542
And in real life,
he was a very soft soul
and she was tough.

1317
01:02:40,542 --> 01:02:42,667
Diane Sokolow:
I don't think
she ever realized

1318
01:02:42,667 --> 01:02:44,917
that she would be
in that life,

1319
01:02:44,917 --> 01:02:47,417
going to Vegas
and having dinner

1320
01:02:47,417 --> 01:02:49,834
with Shorty or Lefty
or Louie.

1321
01:02:49,834 --> 01:02:52,583
So she was having
a different kind of fun

1322
01:02:52,583 --> 01:02:56,250
that she never even assumed
would come her way.

1323
01:02:56,250 --> 01:02:58,000
Delia:
I always thought that

1324
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,000
she was the don
and Nick was the consigliore.

1325
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,417
He tipped everyone
in her path

1326
01:03:03,417 --> 01:03:05,417
so that her life
would be better.

1327
01:03:05,417 --> 01:03:08,208
And I'm surprised
he never tipped you
or he never tipped me.

1328
01:03:08,208 --> 01:03:10,250
He did.
Oh, he did tip you?

1329
01:03:10,250 --> 01:03:13,834
The first date.
He had a-- yeah,
he'd gotten us a soap boat,

1330
01:03:13,834 --> 01:03:16,792
and it was this boat
made out of soap.

1331
01:03:16,792 --> 01:03:18,333
And so he was fine.

1332
01:03:20,500 --> 01:03:22,875
Meg Ryan:
He's such a guy,

1333
01:03:22,875 --> 01:03:25,875
and she was such a lady
around him.

1334
01:03:25,875 --> 01:03:29,458
I remember him
saying to me, "God,
she's got the greatest gams.

1335
01:03:29,458 --> 01:03:31,792
Wow, the gams on this broad."

1336
01:03:31,792 --> 01:03:33,583
I'm like, wow.

1337
01:03:33,583 --> 01:03:37,500
You know, she felt pretty
and loved.

1338
01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:41,125
Since Nick,
almost everything changed.

1339
01:03:41,125 --> 01:03:45,166
Softer, less guarded,

1340
01:03:45,166 --> 01:03:46,750
uh, happy.

1341
01:03:46,750 --> 01:03:49,375
You know,
that was a great love,

1342
01:03:49,375 --> 01:03:52,375
and you felt it.

1343
01:03:52,375 --> 01:03:54,667
Jacob:
As my mom got happier,

1344
01:03:54,667 --> 01:03:57,333
things between her
and my father improved.

1345
01:03:57,333 --> 01:04:00,250
There was at least
a sense of détente
between them.

1346
01:04:00,250 --> 01:04:04,792
Carl:
Despite all the difficulties
through the divorce,

1347
01:04:04,792 --> 01:04:06,917
we were really great

1348
01:04:06,917 --> 01:04:11,375
about what was going on
with the two of you.

1349
01:04:11,375 --> 01:04:14,583
And the results of that,
I think we both

1350
01:04:14,583 --> 01:04:17,583
thought were pretty great.

1351
01:04:17,583 --> 01:04:20,792
(all chattering)

1352
01:04:24,208 --> 01:04:27,750
Woman:
Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan,
America's now king and queen

1353
01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:30,291
of romantic comedies,
sort of, with your help.

1354
01:04:30,291 --> 01:04:33,583
What is it about them--
if you could pinpoint it,

1355
01:04:33,583 --> 01:04:35,667
what is it that--
Two great brains

1356
01:04:35,667 --> 01:04:38,250
and the fact
that they look like they're
from the same food group.

1357
01:04:40,041 --> 01:04:41,917
JJ Sacha:
When the movie came out

1358
01:04:41,917 --> 01:04:43,500
and it opened well,

1359
01:04:43,500 --> 01:04:46,125
she said to me,
"Remember this moment

1360
01:04:46,125 --> 01:04:51,083
because it's a hit
and they don't come along
very often."

1361
01:04:51,083 --> 01:04:54,792
Jacob:
But even the big hits
got mixed reviews.

1362
01:04:54,792 --> 01:04:57,250
Lourd:
I think there was
a disconnect in a way

1363
01:04:57,250 --> 01:04:59,959
for many critics
in that they knew her

1364
01:04:59,959 --> 01:05:02,500
from her columns
and from her books.

1365
01:05:02,500 --> 01:05:06,208
And when these romantic
movies showed up

1366
01:05:06,208 --> 01:05:09,291
that were boy-meets-girl,

1367
01:05:09,291 --> 01:05:11,250
boy-loses-girl,
boy-gets-girl,

1368
01:05:11,250 --> 01:05:13,667
and it's all beautiful
and big on the Empire
State Building,

1369
01:05:13,667 --> 01:05:16,250
people expected
something bad to happen,

1370
01:05:16,250 --> 01:05:18,208
and it didn't,

1371
01:05:18,208 --> 01:05:21,291
and they didn't know
what to do with her,
in a way.

1372
01:05:21,291 --> 01:05:26,000
How dare she
not continue this persona?

1373
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,708
Jacob:
In fact,
there were attempts...

1374
01:05:28,708 --> 01:05:30,834
You should stay
with Steve

1375
01:05:30,834 --> 01:05:33,375
and then let the snowman
come in at the end.

1376
01:05:33,375 --> 01:05:35,208
...ones with
grittier material,

1377
01:05:35,208 --> 01:05:37,750
the kind that recalled
her early essays.

1378
01:05:37,750 --> 01:05:41,625
There was this period
of two, three, four movies,

1379
01:05:41,625 --> 01:05:43,667
like kind of
one after the other,

1380
01:05:43,667 --> 01:05:47,959
that just didn't work
for one reason or the other.

1381
01:05:47,959 --> 01:05:50,959
Mixed Nuts,
the Nora Ephron bomb.

1382
01:05:52,333 --> 01:05:54,542
"Hey, how bad could it be?"
Very bad.

1383
01:05:54,542 --> 01:05:57,667
It's bad. It's bad.
Ooh, is it bad.

1384
01:05:57,667 --> 01:06:00,333
I mean, I don't know--
It's really, really bad.

1385
01:06:00,333 --> 01:06:01,750
You know, in the ads,
it's going to say,

1386
01:06:01,750 --> 01:06:03,625
"From the director
of Sleepless in Seattle,"

1387
01:06:03,625 --> 01:06:05,792
so here's our warning.
Roger Ebert:
This movie isn't sleepless,

1388
01:06:05,792 --> 01:06:07,750
it's not in Seattle
and it's not any good.

1389
01:06:07,750 --> 01:06:09,333
There you go.
Ahh!

1390
01:06:09,333 --> 01:06:11,375
Jacob:
Her career was
in some trouble.

1391
01:06:11,375 --> 01:06:13,917
Yeah, she was in movie jail,
I think.

1392
01:06:13,917 --> 01:06:16,500
Nora:
Well, everybody has flops.

1393
01:06:16,500 --> 01:06:19,000
No one likes
to talk about them.

1394
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,041
27!
The truth is,

1395
01:06:21,041 --> 01:06:24,875
I don't think
you really learn anything
from failure.

1396
01:06:24,875 --> 01:06:27,834
All I think
you learn from failure--
honest to God--

1397
01:06:27,834 --> 01:06:31,208
is that
it's entirely possible
you could have another one.

1398
01:06:31,208 --> 01:06:34,083
Jacob:
Hanging Up
also didn't work,

1399
01:06:34,083 --> 01:06:35,583
and that was her attempt

1400
01:06:35,583 --> 01:06:37,875
to take her family's
more complicated story

1401
01:06:37,875 --> 01:06:39,500
and put it onscreen.

1402
01:06:39,500 --> 01:06:41,250
Sacha:
It's fictionalized,

1403
01:06:41,250 --> 01:06:45,083
but it's certainly
the story of the sisters,

1404
01:06:45,083 --> 01:06:48,125
and Nora's life
is part of that story.

1405
01:06:48,125 --> 01:06:49,875
Hanging Up
was my novel,

1406
01:06:49,875 --> 01:06:52,750
and it's based on
my relationship with Dad.

1407
01:06:52,750 --> 01:06:55,750
And it stars
a middle child--

1408
01:06:55,750 --> 01:07:00,250
The Duke said,
"Your mother and dad make
a hell of a writing team."

1409
01:07:00,250 --> 01:07:03,750
Remember, Evie?
I didn't want her
changing my material.

1410
01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:07,125
So it just started
to get more difficult
at that point.

1411
01:07:07,125 --> 01:07:09,959
They got thorny
for a moment or two,

1412
01:07:09,959 --> 01:07:12,708
and I believe it was
because the material
was so close to home

1413
01:07:12,708 --> 01:07:15,166
in every way,
and so close to the bone
in every way.

1414
01:07:15,166 --> 01:07:18,208
My father had died
and Nora was shooting,

1415
01:07:18,208 --> 01:07:19,583
I think, Sleepless,

1416
01:07:19,583 --> 01:07:22,750
and the problems
of his death

1417
01:07:22,750 --> 01:07:24,708
really were Amy's
and mine.

1418
01:07:24,708 --> 01:07:26,458
Nora wasn't there.

1419
01:07:26,458 --> 01:07:28,708
I mean,
I had resentment for that.

1420
01:07:28,708 --> 01:07:31,041
So when we started
to work on Hanging Up,

1421
01:07:31,041 --> 01:07:34,125
I was--
I was upset about that,

1422
01:07:34,125 --> 01:07:36,834
and she was trying
to make it hers.

1423
01:07:36,834 --> 01:07:39,625
Something wrong?
I can't believe what you did.

1424
01:07:39,625 --> 01:07:41,625
What did I do?
And you always do it.

1425
01:07:41,625 --> 01:07:44,166
What do I always do?
You take my life
and you use it.

1426
01:07:44,166 --> 01:07:46,291
I'm the one who's been here
and not you.

1427
01:07:46,291 --> 01:07:48,208
Well, wait a minute!
When did I take your life--

1428
01:07:48,208 --> 01:07:50,625
They were sisters.
It was about being sisters,

1429
01:07:50,625 --> 01:07:54,750
and it was about
one sister overshadowing
the other sister,

1430
01:07:54,750 --> 01:07:56,417
and that was hard.

1431
01:07:56,417 --> 01:07:58,166
I'm sure she thinks
I was mean about it.

1432
01:07:58,166 --> 01:07:59,834
I thought she was mean
about it.

1433
01:07:59,834 --> 01:08:05,041
And, um, then,
you know, we made up.

1434
01:08:05,041 --> 01:08:07,625
But it was horrible,
actually,

1435
01:08:07,625 --> 01:08:10,333
for each of us.
I mean, just...

1436
01:08:10,333 --> 01:08:13,125
I mean, we've been together
our whole lives, you know,

1437
01:08:13,125 --> 01:08:15,750
and there we were
not speaking over a piece
of material.

1438
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:18,875
In retrospect,
how stupid is that?

1439
01:08:20,375 --> 01:08:22,083
Jacob:
Nevertheless,

1440
01:08:22,083 --> 01:08:24,000
Delia left it
out of  Hanging Up

1441
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,708
that my mom hadn't gone
to my grandfather's funeral.

1442
01:08:26,708 --> 01:08:28,291
Delia was protecting her,

1443
01:08:28,291 --> 01:08:30,834
which seems to me to be
an essential difference

1444
01:08:30,834 --> 01:08:32,583
between the two sisters.

1445
01:08:32,583 --> 01:08:34,583
Had the positions
been reversed,

1446
01:08:34,583 --> 01:08:37,500
I think Mom probably
would have used it.

1447
01:08:37,500 --> 01:08:41,041
Do you remember
when she told you?

1448
01:08:41,041 --> 01:08:42,667
That she was sick?
Yeah.

1449
01:08:42,667 --> 01:08:43,959
Yes, of course I do.
I mean--

1450
01:08:43,959 --> 01:08:46,917
I had been in Paris
for the holidays,

1451
01:08:46,917 --> 01:08:49,917
and I got home
and I remember
picking up the phone

1452
01:08:49,917 --> 01:08:51,959
and there was a message
from Nora.

1453
01:08:51,959 --> 01:08:55,125
And it was,
"Are you home yet? Call me."

1454
01:08:55,125 --> 01:08:58,208
And I knew immediately
something was wrong,

1455
01:08:58,208 --> 01:09:01,959
and we went out that night
to see her and Nick,

1456
01:09:01,959 --> 01:09:04,041
and we were all
just terrified.

1457
01:09:04,041 --> 01:09:06,000
And at that point,
you know, they said,

1458
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,708
you know--
they had said six months.

1459
01:09:08,708 --> 01:09:10,792
When did you first find out?

1460
01:09:10,792 --> 01:09:13,875
Jacob:
I remember that she called me,

1461
01:09:13,875 --> 01:09:15,875
and I went over to dinner.

1462
01:09:15,875 --> 01:09:19,125
Um, and she said,
"I have this thing."

1463
01:09:19,125 --> 01:09:21,750
She said that she had
a variation on it.

1464
01:09:21,750 --> 01:09:23,875
She didn't want
to tell me the name.

1465
01:09:23,875 --> 01:09:28,917
And she said,
"You'll Google it
and then it won't be good,

1466
01:09:28,917 --> 01:09:31,625
and you'll think
that I'm about to die
and I'm not."

1467
01:09:31,625 --> 01:09:33,083
She was trying
not to lie to you,

1468
01:09:33,083 --> 01:09:34,834
but she was trying not
to tell you the truth.

1469
01:09:34,834 --> 01:09:37,083
Yes, that's right.
She didn't want to worry you.

1470
01:09:37,083 --> 01:09:40,083
Jacob: Why do you think
she didn't want people
to know?

1471
01:09:40,083 --> 01:09:43,166
Well, probably there were
some professional reasons,

1472
01:09:43,166 --> 01:09:46,375
because by now,
she was a famous filmmaker,

1473
01:09:46,375 --> 01:09:50,250
but I think also
she didn't want people

1474
01:09:50,250 --> 01:09:55,250
uh, openly concerned
about her or asking her.

1475
01:09:55,250 --> 01:09:59,667
The idea of physical frailty
was an anathema,

1476
01:09:59,667 --> 01:10:03,583
and I don't think
she wanted to have anyone
witness that.

1477
01:10:03,583 --> 01:10:05,959
Oh, it was epic!

1478
01:10:05,959 --> 01:10:08,083
You ask why she did it?

1479
01:10:08,083 --> 01:10:11,000
She did it because
she was a control freak.

1480
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:15,458
Lourd:
We had a very specific
phone call.

1481
01:10:15,458 --> 01:10:19,083
She said, "I'm dealing
with some things to do
with my blood

1482
01:10:19,083 --> 01:10:20,583
"and with an illness.

1483
01:10:20,583 --> 01:10:22,458
"And you're not allowed
to ask me about it

1484
01:10:22,458 --> 01:10:25,166
or reference it,
and we didn't have
this conversation."

1485
01:10:25,166 --> 01:10:26,792
And she was very pointed,

1486
01:10:26,792 --> 01:10:28,875
in the way
that she could be.

1487
01:10:28,875 --> 01:10:31,166
She didn't talk about it,
but every once in a while,

1488
01:10:31,166 --> 01:10:35,959
she would say something
about, "didn't necessarily
have much time left.

1489
01:10:35,959 --> 01:10:38,542
"Couldn't necessarily
complete this project,

1490
01:10:38,542 --> 01:10:41,000
and another project."
All of a sudden,

1491
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:45,125
her-- you could feel
that her life was
being compressed.

1492
01:10:45,125 --> 01:10:47,333
But she--
she was determined to go on.

1493
01:10:47,333 --> 01:10:50,083
I'm Julia Child.

1494
01:10:50,083 --> 01:10:51,542
Bon appétit!

1495
01:10:51,542 --> 01:10:55,375
(thinking)
"The Julie/Julia Project."

1496
01:10:55,375 --> 01:10:57,375
365 days,

1497
01:10:57,375 --> 01:11:00,792
524 recipes...

1498
01:11:00,792 --> 01:11:03,000
Ooh, c'est tres chaud!

1499
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:04,917
Nora:
I love food.

1500
01:11:04,917 --> 01:11:06,959
As you know,
I'm obsessed with food.

1501
01:11:06,959 --> 01:11:08,542
I think about it
constantly.

1502
01:11:08,542 --> 01:11:12,959
And I had become
a grown-up in New York

1503
01:11:12,959 --> 01:11:15,333
cooking from
Julia's cookbook,

1504
01:11:15,333 --> 01:11:19,375
so I just loved
working on it.

1505
01:11:19,375 --> 01:11:21,959
Don Lee:
From the beginning
of  Julie and Julia,

1506
01:11:21,959 --> 01:11:25,375
I was worried about her
'cause she's always
so energetic.

1507
01:11:25,375 --> 01:11:27,500
I said to Delia,
"I know something's up,

1508
01:11:27,500 --> 01:11:29,250
"but I'm not going
to ask any more

1509
01:11:29,250 --> 01:11:31,166
because if Nora wanted me
to know, she'd tell me."

1510
01:11:31,166 --> 01:11:33,000
Okay? All right.
And...

1511
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,917
But she kicked in,
like, you know, the end
of the second week,

1512
01:11:35,917 --> 01:11:38,000
beginning of the third,
and I said, "Oh, we're good."

1513
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:40,583
(all cheering)

1514
01:11:40,583 --> 01:11:42,708
Pièce de résistance!

1515
01:11:42,708 --> 01:11:47,458
The movie involved
all sorts of passions
of Nora's--

1516
01:11:47,458 --> 01:11:49,959
New York, Paris,

1517
01:11:49,959 --> 01:11:51,708
food...

1518
01:11:51,708 --> 01:11:55,208
Jacob:
Did you sense
how personal it was to her?

1519
01:11:55,208 --> 01:11:58,458
Well, I mean,
you couldn't miss
the parallels

1520
01:11:58,458 --> 01:12:01,125
between Nick and her

1521
01:12:01,125 --> 01:12:05,291
and Stanley's
and my character.

1522
01:12:05,291 --> 01:12:06,875
This is really about love.

1523
01:12:06,875 --> 01:12:08,834
It's really about marriage.

1524
01:12:08,834 --> 01:12:11,625
It's really about
a kind of marriage

1525
01:12:11,625 --> 01:12:14,083
that actually exists.

1526
01:12:14,083 --> 01:12:16,000
Um, thank God it does,

1527
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,750
or people
would have accused me
of making this up.

1528
01:12:19,750 --> 01:12:23,417
But there are guys
who really do take
enormous pleasure

1529
01:12:23,417 --> 01:12:25,750
in their wives' growth.

1530
01:12:25,750 --> 01:12:28,667
It's the most
deeply emotional work
that she did, I think.

1531
01:12:28,667 --> 01:12:30,750
There aren't
very many movies

1532
01:12:30,750 --> 01:12:35,333
that are about
a romantic marriage.

1533
01:12:35,333 --> 01:12:38,417
Amy Pascal:
The whole movie
was about her and Nick.

1534
01:12:38,417 --> 01:12:43,083
When he says,
description of what
butter is like...

1535
01:12:43,083 --> 01:12:45,667
Julia, you are the butter
to my bread

1536
01:12:45,667 --> 01:12:47,417
and the breath to my life.

1537
01:12:47,417 --> 01:12:49,166
I love you, darling girl.

1538
01:12:49,166 --> 01:12:51,583
To me, that was just
Nora talking about Nick.

1539
01:12:51,583 --> 01:12:53,708
Happy Valentine's Dad.
Woman: Happy Valentine's Day.

1540
01:12:53,708 --> 01:12:58,625
And that perfect place
two people can be
with each other.

1541
01:12:58,625 --> 01:13:00,875
Ahhh!
Ahhh!

1542
01:13:00,875 --> 01:13:04,125
Mark:
I also think it was
the story of the two sisters,

1543
01:13:04,125 --> 01:13:05,333
of Delia and Nora.

1544
01:13:05,333 --> 01:13:07,291
The only scene
we ever reshot

1545
01:13:07,291 --> 01:13:10,000
in the entire movie
was this tiny, tiny scene

1546
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:11,959
you may recall
in front of the mirror

1547
01:13:11,959 --> 01:13:14,375
where the two of them
are getting ready

1548
01:13:14,375 --> 01:13:17,250
for the party.

1549
01:13:17,250 --> 01:13:20,208
And they each look
at each other in the mirror,

1550
01:13:20,208 --> 01:13:22,041
look at both
in the mirror,

1551
01:13:22,041 --> 01:13:23,750
and at one point,
Meryl says...

1552
01:13:23,750 --> 01:13:26,125
Pretty good.

1553
01:13:26,125 --> 01:13:30,166
She wanted
to get it perfect.

1554
01:13:30,166 --> 01:13:32,291
But not great.

1555
01:13:33,458 --> 01:13:35,542
Did you have any idea
that she was sick

1556
01:13:35,542 --> 01:13:36,959
during the making of it?

1557
01:13:36,959 --> 01:13:38,458
No. No.

1558
01:13:38,458 --> 01:13:40,708
As a matter of fact,
no, absolutely not.

1559
01:13:40,708 --> 01:13:42,959
Did you have any sense
working on Julie and Julia

1560
01:13:42,959 --> 01:13:45,125
anything was wrong
with her health?

1561
01:13:45,125 --> 01:13:48,417
No.

1562
01:13:48,417 --> 01:13:50,625
She never sat down.

1563
01:13:50,625 --> 01:13:53,542
She had so much energy.

1564
01:13:53,542 --> 01:13:55,083
And happy.

1565
01:13:55,083 --> 01:13:58,375
Truly happy
when we were shooting that.

1566
01:14:00,708 --> 01:14:05,417
Rita Wilson:
Considering
the Alternative. 2006.

1567
01:14:05,417 --> 01:14:09,417
"When I turned 60,
I had a big birthday party
in Las Vegas,

1568
01:14:09,417 --> 01:14:12,208
"which happens to be
one of my top-five places.

1569
01:14:12,208 --> 01:14:15,458
"It seemed to me
that the only way to deal
with a birthday of this sort

1570
01:14:15,458 --> 01:14:18,667
"was to do
everything possible
to push it from my mind.

1571
01:14:18,667 --> 01:14:21,375
"Nothing else about me
is better than it was

1572
01:14:21,375 --> 01:14:24,291
"at 50 or 40 or 30,

1573
01:14:24,291 --> 01:14:27,667
"but I definitely
have the best haircut
I've ever had.

1574
01:14:27,667 --> 01:14:29,458
"I like my new apartment.

1575
01:14:29,458 --> 01:14:33,125
"And as the expression goes,
'Consider the alternative.'

1576
01:14:33,125 --> 01:14:35,875
"I am dancing around
the 'D' word,

1577
01:14:35,875 --> 01:14:38,041
"but I don't mean
to by coy.

1578
01:14:38,041 --> 01:14:41,458
"When you cross
into your 60s,
your odds of dying,

1579
01:14:41,458 --> 01:14:44,834
"or of merely
getting horribly sick

1580
01:14:44,834 --> 01:14:47,583
"on the way to dying,
spike.

1581
01:14:47,583 --> 01:14:49,375
"Death is a sniper.

1582
01:14:49,375 --> 01:14:51,417
"It strikes people
you love,

1583
01:14:51,417 --> 01:14:54,500
"people you like,
people you know.

1584
01:14:54,500 --> 01:14:57,375
"It's everywhere.
You could be next,

1585
01:14:57,375 --> 01:14:59,667
"but then you turn out
not to be,

1586
01:14:59,667 --> 01:15:02,041
but then again,
you could be."

1587
01:15:02,041 --> 01:15:05,250
The essays
in the last two books are...

1588
01:15:05,250 --> 01:15:08,417
first of all, they're informed
by a big secret.

1589
01:15:08,417 --> 01:15:11,208
Especially the last book.
They're informed
by the knowledge,

1590
01:15:11,208 --> 01:15:13,792
"Mortality is upon me."

1591
01:15:13,792 --> 01:15:16,708
Jacob:
Those two books,

1592
01:15:16,708 --> 01:15:19,792
suddenly she was
the fountain of wisdom
on aging.

1593
01:15:19,792 --> 01:15:22,542
I mean--
She got very famous
in the end.

1594
01:15:22,542 --> 01:15:24,250
Really famous.

1595
01:15:24,250 --> 01:15:26,291
Jacob:
My mom did
a huge amount of work

1596
01:15:26,291 --> 01:15:28,250
the last six years
she was alive.

1597
01:15:28,250 --> 01:15:30,417
There were over 100
blog posts.

1598
01:15:30,417 --> 01:15:33,250
There were pieces
in  The New Yorker
and  Vogue.

1599
01:15:33,250 --> 01:15:36,250
There were two movies,
a play on Broadway,

1600
01:15:36,250 --> 01:15:37,708
a play Off-Broadway.

1601
01:15:37,708 --> 01:15:39,875
There were
the two essay collections.

1602
01:15:39,875 --> 01:15:41,542
She just kept going.

1603
01:15:43,417 --> 01:15:46,375
The book is called,
I Remember Nothing,

1604
01:15:46,375 --> 01:15:48,792
which is not true.
She remembers everything.

1605
01:15:48,792 --> 01:15:51,708
I was there for the Beatles.
I'm like Zelig.

1606
01:15:51,708 --> 01:15:54,959
I was there when
the Beatles came to America.

1607
01:15:54,959 --> 01:15:58,667
I was writing about them,
and I couldn't hear anything,

1608
01:15:58,667 --> 01:16:00,417
and that's what I remember.

1609
01:16:00,417 --> 01:16:04,583
Nora:
Reading books that said
how fabulous you were

1610
01:16:04,583 --> 01:16:06,083
in your 60s,

1611
01:16:06,083 --> 01:16:08,625
how you could have
the greatest sex of your life.

1612
01:16:08,625 --> 01:16:10,375
I-- I just--

1613
01:16:10,375 --> 01:16:12,583
I thought,
are these people on crack?

1614
01:16:12,583 --> 01:16:15,208
I feel so nostalgic
about the days

1615
01:16:15,208 --> 01:16:17,959
when all I felt bad about
was my neck.

1616
01:16:17,959 --> 01:16:21,125
Because your neck is like
the canary in the mine.

1617
01:16:21,125 --> 01:16:23,125
The neck is the thing
that is saying,

1618
01:16:23,125 --> 01:16:24,917
"Don't kid yourself.
You can do--

1619
01:16:24,917 --> 01:16:27,834
you can put spackle
on your face," basically.

1620
01:16:27,834 --> 01:16:30,667
But this is the thing
that is saying,

1621
01:16:30,667 --> 01:16:32,125
"Uh-oh, uh-oh."

1622
01:16:32,125 --> 01:16:34,208
You know, and if our elbows
faced forward,

1623
01:16:34,208 --> 01:16:37,542
we would all shoot ourselves.
You know.

1624
01:16:39,500 --> 01:16:42,834
Announcer:
The play is called
Lucky Guy.

1625
01:16:42,834 --> 01:16:46,125
Tom Hanks is playing
Mike McAlary,

1626
01:16:46,125 --> 01:16:48,708
a real-life reporter
and columnist

1627
01:16:48,708 --> 01:16:51,500
who bounced around
the rough-and-tumble world

1628
01:16:51,500 --> 01:16:54,041
of New York's
tabloid newspapers

1629
01:16:54,041 --> 01:16:58,834
from the 1980s
through his death in 1998.

1630
01:16:58,834 --> 01:17:01,667
Jacob:
Lucky Guy was the last thing
she wrote.

1631
01:17:01,667 --> 01:17:04,000
It was not
autobiographical,

1632
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:05,834
though the parallels
to her own life

1633
01:17:05,834 --> 01:17:07,875
would later become
apparent to everyone.

1634
01:17:07,875 --> 01:17:10,041
Tom Hanks:
I remember asking her
specifically,

1635
01:17:10,041 --> 01:17:13,000
"What's so fascinating
about Mike McAlary?

1636
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:14,500
Did he write great columns?"

1637
01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:17,917
And she said, "Some,
but not particularly."

1638
01:17:17,917 --> 01:17:19,708
I said, well, you know,

1639
01:17:19,708 --> 01:17:22,750
"Was he a crackerjack writer
that you absolutely
had to read?"

1640
01:17:22,750 --> 01:17:25,583
And she said,
"No, not really."

1641
01:17:25,583 --> 01:17:27,792
And George Wolfe
at one point said,

1642
01:17:27,792 --> 01:17:30,208
"Well, Nora, why--
why are you telling
this story?"

1643
01:17:30,208 --> 01:17:32,500
The whole thought process
was about,

1644
01:17:32,500 --> 01:17:34,959
"What is this damn play
about?

1645
01:17:34,959 --> 01:17:36,708
"Why are you-- why are you
writing this play?

1646
01:17:36,708 --> 01:17:38,542
Why are you--
why, why, why?"

1647
01:17:38,542 --> 01:17:40,542
Hanks:
Why are you telling
this story about this guy

1648
01:17:40,542 --> 01:17:42,208
who wasn't quite so good,
but rose up to the top

1649
01:17:42,208 --> 01:17:44,125
and fancied himself
the biggest

1650
01:17:44,125 --> 01:17:46,291
and for a while
was the highest-paid
columnist

1651
01:17:46,291 --> 01:17:48,250
in New York City?
He didn't really deserve

1652
01:17:48,250 --> 01:17:50,500
all this attention
or this acclaim.

1653
01:17:50,500 --> 01:17:54,875
And to George,
she said, "Well..."

1654
01:17:54,875 --> 01:17:59,625
Wolfe:
She said, "This play
is about somebody

1655
01:17:59,625 --> 01:18:01,750
"who has more luck

1656
01:18:01,750 --> 01:18:03,959
than talent."

1657
01:18:03,959 --> 01:18:07,875
She said, "And I know
something about that."

1658
01:18:07,875 --> 01:18:09,917
When George and I
talked about it,

1659
01:18:09,917 --> 01:18:11,667
I was, you know,
somewhat aghast.

1660
01:18:11,667 --> 01:18:14,250
And George said, "I know!"
It's the last sort of thing

1661
01:18:14,250 --> 01:18:16,708
that you would think
you'd get from Nora.

1662
01:18:16,708 --> 01:18:19,083
It's said of Orwell

1663
01:18:19,083 --> 01:18:22,834
that one of the reasons
why so many love him

1664
01:18:22,834 --> 01:18:26,458
and live by him
is that he was not a genius.

1665
01:18:26,458 --> 01:18:30,250
I don't think Nora Ephron
was a genius,

1666
01:18:30,250 --> 01:18:33,917
and that made
her available to us.

1667
01:18:33,917 --> 01:18:38,208
Wolfe:
There's something
really fascinating

1668
01:18:38,208 --> 01:18:40,041
about  Lucky Guy.

1669
01:18:40,041 --> 01:18:43,834
McAlary, he was on chemo
when he's doing the story,

1670
01:18:43,834 --> 01:18:46,583
and she's on chemo while
she's working on the play.

1671
01:18:46,583 --> 01:18:48,750
There was this incredible
sense of time table

1672
01:18:48,750 --> 01:18:51,125
and this sense of urgency
and this sense of grace.

1673
01:18:51,125 --> 01:18:52,792
To me,
at the end of the day,

1674
01:18:52,792 --> 01:18:55,166
I think that
what Lucky Guy  is about

1675
01:18:55,166 --> 01:18:58,375
is-- is about a human being

1676
01:18:58,375 --> 01:19:03,792
who replaces ambition
for grace.

1677
01:19:06,166 --> 01:19:09,291
Geffen:
You know,
many of us noticed

1678
01:19:09,291 --> 01:19:11,458
the difference in Nora,

1679
01:19:11,458 --> 01:19:13,458
how she had mellowed.

1680
01:19:13,458 --> 01:19:15,291
Never put
two and two together

1681
01:19:15,291 --> 01:19:17,500
and came up with
that there was a reason.

1682
01:19:17,500 --> 01:19:20,667
She was more, uh...
more forgiving.

1683
01:19:20,667 --> 01:19:22,834
More tolerant.

1684
01:19:22,834 --> 01:19:25,458
And I think
she acquired that

1685
01:19:25,458 --> 01:19:27,125
with the bad news.

1686
01:19:27,125 --> 01:19:29,583
She was easier
and easier and easier

1687
01:19:29,583 --> 01:19:33,542
about, um, her own flaws,
about mine,

1688
01:19:33,542 --> 01:19:37,000
about other people's.
She laughed easier
about things.

1689
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,041
She just got so porous.

1690
01:19:39,041 --> 01:19:43,625
The last couple years,
she'd been much
more tender with me,

1691
01:19:43,625 --> 01:19:48,500
um, and happier, somehow.

1692
01:19:48,500 --> 01:19:51,500
Nora would reach out
to people near the end

1693
01:19:51,500 --> 01:19:53,500
and sort of be emotionally--

1694
01:19:53,500 --> 01:19:56,333
you know, and I remember
getting an email

1695
01:19:56,333 --> 01:19:58,959
about six months,
eight months before she died,

1696
01:19:58,959 --> 01:20:01,375
and she said,
"Just sitting here in LA today

1697
01:20:01,375 --> 01:20:03,250
thinking I miss you
and I love you."

1698
01:20:03,250 --> 01:20:06,208
Lee:
She invited me to dinner.

1699
01:20:06,208 --> 01:20:09,291
She was drinking
and she liked the wine
we picked.

1700
01:20:09,291 --> 01:20:12,458
And we had a nice dinner
at Locanda.

1701
01:20:12,458 --> 01:20:15,792
Though she thought
the garlic chicken
wasn't up to par that night.

1702
01:20:15,792 --> 01:20:18,750
But I think now,
I think in hindsight,

1703
01:20:18,750 --> 01:20:21,250
she invited me to dinner
to say goodbye.

1704
01:20:21,250 --> 01:20:23,667
Nichols:
It was really her

1705
01:20:23,667 --> 01:20:26,667
at her most
characteristic self,

1706
01:20:26,667 --> 01:20:29,959
except there were
odd silences,

1707
01:20:29,959 --> 01:20:33,875
and I was too stupid
to realize

1708
01:20:33,875 --> 01:20:36,500
that it was a goodbye lunch.

1709
01:20:36,500 --> 01:20:39,750
Brenner:
We had a long
four-hour lunch,

1710
01:20:39,750 --> 01:20:42,166
and at the end
of the lunch, she said,

1711
01:20:42,166 --> 01:20:44,625
"I don't feel
like going home yet."

1712
01:20:44,625 --> 01:20:46,917
She said, "Can we go
have cheesecake?"

1713
01:20:46,917 --> 01:20:49,250
Now, your mother
never ate dessert,

1714
01:20:49,250 --> 01:20:52,667
or she would eat two bites.
This was very unusual.

1715
01:20:52,667 --> 01:20:54,583
I don't even want to start.

1716
01:20:54,583 --> 01:20:57,583
I'm going to get emotional
even thinking about this.

1717
01:20:57,583 --> 01:21:00,041
So we ordered
this huge piece
of cheesecake,

1718
01:21:00,041 --> 01:21:02,083
which we split,
and then she said,

1719
01:21:02,083 --> 01:21:04,083
"Would you take me home
in a taxi?"

1720
01:21:04,083 --> 01:21:07,125
She lived three blocks away
and it had stopped raining.

1721
01:21:07,125 --> 01:21:09,542
That's when I--
You know, it was like,
something...

1722
01:21:09,542 --> 01:21:11,333
And so I said, "Of course."

1723
01:21:11,333 --> 01:21:13,333
So I dropped her,
like, three blocks,

1724
01:21:13,333 --> 01:21:16,708
and then she hugged me
and then three days later,

1725
01:21:16,708 --> 01:21:19,083
two days later,
she went into the hospital.

1726
01:21:22,792 --> 01:21:26,417
Jacob:
"I'm having a little
health crisis."

1727
01:21:26,417 --> 01:21:28,500
That's how she put it
when she called me

1728
01:21:28,500 --> 01:21:32,333
to tell me her MDS
had turned into leukemia.

1729
01:21:34,166 --> 01:21:37,458
Cohen:
We were talking
about what to tell people,

1730
01:21:37,458 --> 01:21:41,667
and I said, "Tell 'em
you have leukemia.

1731
01:21:41,667 --> 01:21:43,625
"This is not, you know,
a venereal disease.

1732
01:21:43,625 --> 01:21:45,291
"There's nothing
to be ashamed of.

1733
01:21:45,291 --> 01:21:47,250
You have leukemia
and you're going to beat it."

1734
01:21:47,250 --> 01:21:49,333
She said, "Well,
I don't know, I don't know,
I don't know."

1735
01:21:49,333 --> 01:21:51,125
And the next day,
there was a line,

1736
01:21:51,125 --> 01:21:53,000
and I don't know
where it came from,

1737
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:54,792
which was,
"Not telling anybody."

1738
01:21:54,792 --> 01:21:56,667
I was horrified

1739
01:21:56,667 --> 01:21:58,875
'cause I saw
what was happening,

1740
01:21:58,875 --> 01:22:02,500
and that nobody was going
to acknowledge it

1741
01:22:02,500 --> 01:22:04,500
or explain it.

1742
01:22:05,792 --> 01:22:07,667
Jacob:
The chemotherapy
didn't work.

1743
01:22:07,667 --> 01:22:11,417
The days turned into weeks
and the weeks turned
into pneumonia.

1744
01:22:11,417 --> 01:22:13,792
Eventually, she began
shutting down

1745
01:22:13,792 --> 01:22:16,125
and I started
calling her friends.

1746
01:22:16,125 --> 01:22:19,083
Well, the people
that knew her best
were upset.

1747
01:22:19,083 --> 01:22:21,166
Well, at first,
it was weird, right?

1748
01:22:21,166 --> 01:22:22,750
'Cause you think,
well,

1749
01:22:22,750 --> 01:22:25,500
wait, I'm close--
I'm really close to her.

1750
01:22:25,500 --> 01:22:27,417
Like, I know her,
like, really.

1751
01:22:27,417 --> 01:22:29,959
There was definite anger

1752
01:22:29,959 --> 01:22:35,500
about this plan
she'd executed.

1753
01:22:35,500 --> 01:22:38,625
I felt
I was close enough to her

1754
01:22:38,625 --> 01:22:40,500
to go to a hospital.

1755
01:22:40,500 --> 01:22:43,917
What the hell
is Richard Cohen doing there,
is what I thought.

1756
01:22:43,917 --> 01:22:46,375
That doesn't sound
very generous, does it?

1757
01:22:46,375 --> 01:22:48,333
It was very hard.

1758
01:22:48,333 --> 01:22:52,959
Because--
because it was an ambush.

1759
01:22:52,959 --> 01:22:55,333
It was almost like
she was in a car accident,
you know?

1760
01:22:55,333 --> 01:22:57,750
I remember you called me
and you said, "Oh, I have
bad news about mom."

1761
01:22:57,750 --> 01:22:59,917
And I'm thinking,
well, what the hell
could it be? You know?

1762
01:22:59,917 --> 01:23:01,750
Like,
it didn't enter my mind

1763
01:23:01,750 --> 01:23:04,125
that she could be dying,
you know?

1764
01:23:04,125 --> 01:23:06,417
I think people
who resented the fact

1765
01:23:06,417 --> 01:23:10,458
that she didn't tell them
are a little self-absorbed.

1766
01:23:10,458 --> 01:23:14,250
It was her business
how she chose to die,
not their business.

1767
01:23:14,250 --> 01:23:16,458
But how interesting
it was, Jacob,

1768
01:23:16,458 --> 01:23:19,375
that at the end of her life,
where everything,

1769
01:23:19,375 --> 01:23:22,417
your mother's mantra,
your grandmother's mantra--

1770
01:23:22,417 --> 01:23:25,583
"Nora, this is all material.
Nora, this is material"--

1771
01:23:25,583 --> 01:23:29,917
at the most powerful moment
of her life,

1772
01:23:29,917 --> 01:23:32,083
when she was facing
her death,

1773
01:23:32,083 --> 01:23:35,083
it was not material,
it was not a story.

1774
01:23:38,750 --> 01:23:40,875
Jacob:
I think at the end
of my mom's life,

1775
01:23:40,875 --> 01:23:43,667
she believed
that everything is not copy,

1776
01:23:43,667 --> 01:23:46,667
that the things you want
to keep are not copy,

1777
01:23:46,667 --> 01:23:49,208
that the people you love
are not copy.

1778
01:23:49,208 --> 01:23:51,959
That what is copy
is the stuff you've lost,

1779
01:23:51,959 --> 01:23:54,458
the stuff you're willing
to give away,

1780
01:23:54,458 --> 01:23:57,000
the things that have
been taken from you.

1781
01:23:57,000 --> 01:23:58,792
She saw
"everything is copy"

1782
01:23:58,792 --> 01:24:01,166
as a means
of controlling the story.

1783
01:24:01,166 --> 01:24:04,208
Once she became ill,
the way to control the story

1784
01:24:04,208 --> 01:24:06,583
was to make it not exist.

1785
01:24:06,583 --> 01:24:09,875
And ultimately,
she was super private,

1786
01:24:09,875 --> 01:24:14,208
and all the stories
and short stories

1787
01:24:14,208 --> 01:24:15,667
and everything else,

1788
01:24:15,667 --> 01:24:21,041
she really kept her private
self really private.

1789
01:24:21,041 --> 01:24:23,083
She's the one who said,

1790
01:24:23,083 --> 01:24:25,041
"There is no privacy.

1791
01:24:25,041 --> 01:24:27,834
Forget privacy.
It's gone."

1792
01:24:27,834 --> 01:24:31,041
And this is the most
fascinating thing

1793
01:24:31,041 --> 01:24:32,500
in the whole world to me,

1794
01:24:32,500 --> 01:24:36,417
because she achieved
a private act

1795
01:24:36,417 --> 01:24:38,959
in a world where

1796
01:24:38,959 --> 01:24:43,834
the most superficial parts
of the most intimate acts

1797
01:24:43,834 --> 01:24:47,291
are everywhere, and sold.

1798
01:24:47,291 --> 01:24:49,000
They're sold.

1799
01:24:51,291 --> 01:24:54,333
Delia:
I used to do the days,

1800
01:24:54,333 --> 01:24:56,708
and then you and Max
and Nick

1801
01:24:56,708 --> 01:24:58,500
would do nights.

1802
01:24:58,500 --> 01:25:00,834
I would get home
around 5:00 or 6:00,

1803
01:25:00,834 --> 01:25:03,625
and I remember walking
into the house and just
saying to Jerry,

1804
01:25:03,625 --> 01:25:05,125
"I have to go back."

1805
01:25:05,125 --> 01:25:08,834
That at that point,
I just couldn't be away.

1806
01:25:08,834 --> 01:25:11,583
And Jerry came back with me,

1807
01:25:11,583 --> 01:25:15,000
and we ended up
playing hearts.

1808
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:17,500
And she taught me
how to play hearts.

1809
01:25:17,500 --> 01:25:21,125
And that was, I think,
two days before she died,
or three.

1810
01:25:21,125 --> 01:25:24,041
Two days before we died--

1811
01:25:24,041 --> 01:25:26,834
"We died."
Do you believe that?

1812
01:25:26,834 --> 01:25:28,208
Oh my God.

1813
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:32,917
Cohen:
I talked to her
and she talked to me

1814
01:25:32,917 --> 01:25:35,250
with the understanding
that she was dying.

1815
01:25:35,250 --> 01:25:37,208
She was very brave.

1816
01:25:37,208 --> 01:25:40,708
I would talk to her
about how much she was loved,

1817
01:25:40,708 --> 01:25:43,375
and she could feel it.

1818
01:25:46,625 --> 01:25:49,000
Nora Ephron
was one of the best

1819
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:51,625
and most famous
American writers
of our time.

1820
01:25:51,625 --> 01:25:54,708
She died last night
of leukemia at the age of 71.

1821
01:25:54,708 --> 01:25:56,500
Kate Dahlgren:
Few even knew
that Ephron was sick,

1822
01:25:56,500 --> 01:25:57,959
causing some confusion

1823
01:25:57,959 --> 01:25:59,583
when word
of her illness broke

1824
01:25:59,583 --> 01:26:02,000
and even some premature
reports of her death,

1825
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:05,125
something those
close to Ephron say
she would have found funny.

1826
01:26:05,125 --> 01:26:09,083
(reporter speaking Russian)

1827
01:26:09,083 --> 01:26:13,041
(reporters speaking
different languages)

1828
01:26:16,583 --> 01:26:20,250
It's hard for me
because I so much
wanted her to like me.

1829
01:26:20,250 --> 01:26:23,041
Mmm.
And I so much wanted her
to think

1830
01:26:23,041 --> 01:26:26,083
that-- that I was
as interesting as she was.

1831
01:26:26,083 --> 01:26:29,041
Lee:
I was riding up
in the elevator,

1832
01:26:29,041 --> 01:26:31,542
after your mother died
with Mike Nichols,

1833
01:26:31,542 --> 01:26:33,625
and he just looked at me
and we said,

1834
01:26:33,625 --> 01:26:36,750
you know, "Who..."

1835
01:26:36,750 --> 01:26:39,542
(sniffling)

1836
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:43,583
Sorry.

1837
01:26:43,583 --> 01:26:48,125
"Who's going to tell us
what to do?"

1838
01:26:49,417 --> 01:26:54,000
Nora:
It's very important
to eat your last meal

1839
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:56,750
before it actually
comes up.

1840
01:26:56,750 --> 01:26:59,708
When you are actually

1841
01:26:59,708 --> 01:27:02,125
going to have your last meal,

1842
01:27:02,125 --> 01:27:04,333
you either will be
too sick to have it,

1843
01:27:04,333 --> 01:27:06,792
or you aren't going to know
it's your last meal

1844
01:27:06,792 --> 01:27:10,208
and you could
squander it on something
like a tuna melt.

1845
01:27:10,208 --> 01:27:12,291
The thing
I'm going to miss...

1846
01:27:12,291 --> 01:27:14,708
Yes? Yes?
...after I'm dead

1847
01:27:14,708 --> 01:27:17,458
is bacon.

1848
01:27:19,125 --> 01:27:21,583
Nora:
What I Will Miss.

1849
01:27:23,917 --> 01:27:26,000
My kids.

1850
01:27:28,792 --> 01:27:29,834
Nick.

1851
01:27:31,166 --> 01:27:32,166
Spring.

1852
01:27:33,708 --> 01:27:34,667
Fall.

1853
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:37,000
Butter.

1854
01:27:37,917 --> 01:27:39,208
A walk in the park.

1855
01:27:40,291 --> 01:27:42,500
Dinner with friends.

1856
01:27:42,500 --> 01:27:46,208
Dinner with friends in cities
where none of us lives.

1857
01:27:47,667 --> 01:27:49,333
Paris.

1858
01:27:49,333 --> 01:27:51,667
Next year in Istanbul.

1859
01:27:52,792 --> 01:27:54,625
Pride and Prejudice.

1860
01:27:55,834 --> 01:27:57,166
The Christmas tree.

1861
01:27:58,166 --> 01:27:59,542
Thanksgiving dinner.

1862
01:28:00,500 --> 01:28:02,834
One for the table.

1863
01:28:02,834 --> 01:28:03,875
The dogwood.

1864
01:28:04,917 --> 01:28:06,667
Taking a bath.

1865
01:28:06,667 --> 01:28:09,333
Coming over the bridge
to Manhattan.

1866
01:28:10,583 --> 01:28:12,166
Pie.

1867
01:28:17,208 --> 01:28:22,208
♪ Love is
the sweetest thing ♪

1868
01:28:22,208 --> 01:28:27,417
♪ What else on earth
could ever bring ♪

1869
01:28:27,417 --> 01:28:32,041
♪ Such happiness
to everything ♪

1870
01:28:32,041 --> 01:28:36,875
♪ As love's old story? ♪

1871
01:28:36,875 --> 01:28:41,875
♪ Love is
the strangest thing ♪

1872
01:28:41,875 --> 01:28:46,708
♪ No song or birds
upon the wing ♪

1873
01:28:46,708 --> 01:28:51,208
♪ Shall in our hearts
more sweetly sing ♪

1874
01:28:51,208 --> 01:28:56,208
♪ Than love's old story ♪

1875
01:28:56,208 --> 01:29:01,041
♪ Whatever hearts
may desire ♪

1876
01:29:01,041 --> 01:29:05,333
♪ Whatever life may send ♪

1877
01:29:05,333 --> 01:29:10,250
♪ This is the tale
that never will tire ♪

1878
01:29:10,250 --> 01:29:15,417
♪ This is the song
without end ♪

1879
01:29:15,417 --> 01:29:20,125
♪ Love is
the strongest thing ♪

1880
01:29:20,125 --> 01:29:22,375
♪ The oldest ♪

1881
01:29:22,375 --> 01:29:25,000
♪ Yet the latest thing ♪

1882
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:30,083
♪ I only hope
that fate may bring ♪

1883
01:29:30,083 --> 01:29:35,083
♪ Love's story to you ♪

1884
01:29:36,834 --> 01:29:41,000
♪ Love is
the sweetest thing ♪